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The Business of Business Podcast

Aug 16, 2021

Want Better Relationships in All Areas of Your Life? Learn To Read People with Alan Stevens

When you put it together, but the words are worth about 7% of the communication. Oh, wow, the tone of voice 38% the body language 55%. Now, that doesn't mean that the words aren't important. And the words are equally important to the communication as the body language and the tone of voice. Because without it, you don't have communication.

About Alan

Alan Stevens is an International Profiling and Communications Specialist regularly featured on National TV, Radio and in the World’s Press, profiling the likes of our leading politicians, TV and sports stars as well as Britain’s Royalty. He’s been referred to by the UK Guardian as the leading authority on reading people, globally and the mentalist meets Dr Phil by the Herald.

Alan has worked with international clients, the likes of Disney Films and Gillette, and high-profile organizations like the Australian Federal Police to help them to understand how people tick. Alan works with business owners and executives, helping them to understand and engage their clients and prospects, enhancing their presentations and negotiation skills. And with parents and teachers to help them enhance the ability of their children to reach their full potential while improving the experience of parents, teachers, and students.

His latest community initiative is The Campfire Project. The Campfire Project is a safe place for men and women to give themselves permission to tell their stories. To share their experiences and wisdom from around the world. This is his #WeTogether initiative.

This is the link to the 7 Secrets to Reading people

Short free course

And The Campfire Project is


Full Transcript Below


Want Better Relationships in All Areas of Your Life? Learn To Read People with Alan Steves

Sun, 8/1 1:08PM • 50:07


people, read, listen, questions, person, talking, analytical, men, understand, talk, interested, alan, important, close, body language, sale, relationship, telling, information, expression


Alan, Roy Barker


Roy Barker  00:00

Roy. So we are the podcast that brings a wide range of guests that can talk about a lot of diverse topics and today is no different. We have Alan Stevens with us been waiting for this interview for the last couple of weeks This is going to be very exciting. So Alan is an international profiling and communication specialists regularly featured on national TV, radio and in the world's press, profiling the likes of our leader leading politicians, TV and sports stars as well as Britain's royalty. He's been referred to by the UK Guardian as the leading authority on reading people globally. And The Mentalist meets Dr. Phil lby the Herald. Alan has worked with international clients like the likes of Disney films, and Gillette and high profile organizations, like the Australian Federal Police to help them understand how people tick. Allen works with business owners and executives helping them to understand and engage their clients and prospects, enhancing their presentations and negotiation skills. And with parents and teachers to help them enhance the ability of their children to reach their full potential while improving the experience of parents, teacher and student. He his latest community initiative is the campfire project, the camp for our project is a safe place for men and women to give themselves permission to tell their stories, to share their experiences and wisdom from around the world. This is his hashtag we together initiative. Alan, thanks so much for taking time out of your day to be with us.


Alan  01:41

It's been my pleasure, thank you very much


Roy Barker  01:43

wish I had met you 30 years ago when my kids were young. might have been a lot less grief for all I was going through that had my skills back then as well, because I would have been better with my kids as well. Right? Well, you know, reading people, it's important, you know, we've we've had this conversation, that's a reason why I'm excited to get you want here. Also, we'll just let you know, I usually let everybody know that the video of this interview will be put up as well. But the nice thing about video versus text is we can actually see these the reactions, you know, sometimes I could, I mean, sometimes I'm just have to say I'm probably one of the funniest people I know. And I will send a zinger to my girlfriend or to one of the kids and you know, I'm sitting there dying laugh, and they're like, Yeah, I just don't get that. Are they? Like, what are you saying? You know, they take it totally wrong, because they can't see my impression. So I'm gonna let you take it from there. It's just it's such an important part of that community. Communication.


Alan  02:51

Oh, that's right, because they say that, when it comes to communication, body language, the tone of voice, the words, that makes up 100%, when you put it together, but the words are worth about 7% of the communication. Oh, wow, the tone of voice 38% the body language 55%. Now, that doesn't mean that the words aren't important. And the words are equally important to the communication as the body language and the tone of voice. Because without it, you don't have communication, like I'm sitting here and I'm just shuffling around and I'm ranting making noises. There's no communication. So you've got to have the words, right. But as far as the amount of information that's conveyed, the words only convey a very small amount. Yeah. As I always say to people that when you're with somebody in the talking, you but everyone says you got two ears and one mouth, and I go Well, you've also got two eyes, two ears and one mouth, use them in that proportion. Okay, because it's not just Well, at school, we were told to sit and listen. And so all of our focus is on listening. in a court of law, everything is focused on listening again, as well, you've got to listen to what's being said, you got to uncover the truth. It's got to be spoken. And in that we don't focus much on the nonverbals. But as children, we were very good at reading people, we had to be able to recognize somebody's facial features to recognize whether we knew them or not know was always safe to be around or not, but then also be able to read their expressions, and their tone of voice and everything else. All of that gave us so much information it was about survive, as in tribal times, and also as young children. And let's face it, children, if anyone's got young children, just ask yourself is how often do your children push you right to the edge but not over the edge? Because they are reading you. They're experts at it. But like any geek as we get older, we focus on everything else we're doing and we forget about that. Yeah, so the end result is we're now told words are the most important thing, but they're not. It's a tone of voice and everything if I said I didn't say she stole the money in a flatline. Well, there's just one reaction. Take the meeting anyway. But if I said I didn't say, or if I'd said, I didn't say, he told the money or the inflection changes, the whole meaning of the sentence would be the first one that somebody else said it. The second one is I didn't say, I actually wrote it down, or I left a message for somebody in a written format. So the words change, as soon as you put the inflection in, that's what we need to focus on. Right?


Roy Barker  05:24

Yeah, before we get too deep into it, kind of how did you find yourself here? I mean, what what path led you to be able to, you know, help people read other people.


Alan  05:34

When you said about a little while ago, I bet your children why chocolate, what about fat is the fact that I was dreadful at reading people. I'd grown up as pretty much a loner, and then got involved in, in when I got employed, I was put in charge of men who are older than me. So I had to get them on side. And all the way through, I always struggled to try and connect with people. I've been through two divorces, I've had a lot of business partners who a couple of them who actually emptied the bank out, and a lot of other relationships. And then my first wife, they've had three boys to raise on my own. So right through my life, I've always been in the deep end. And through necessity, it was after my second device, and then working with people who were currency traders who weren't making any money with the company that train them got me to come in and have a look, I needed to find out a lot more about how to read people. And that's how my skills have increased over the years that was owning, first of all body language, then it was being able to understand the words my NLP masters, and more recently into the facial profiling. Yeah, it has given me so much more information.


Roy Barker  06:43

Yeah, that's awesome. Because it's, it really is a skill that we should use in our lot, you know, in every facet business, our personal relationships, friendships, even when we're dealing with merchants, vendors, negotiating contracts. I mean, it just applies to everything.


Alan  07:02

That's it? Yeah. Well, at the end of the day, relationships are the foundation of everything we do. And without having built a relationship with somebody, we don't have any impact with them. If you're selling, nobody buys from anybody they don't know, like, and trust unless they have to, you're the only person selling and they definitely or desperately need the product, right. But even when it comes to a relationship, no left, by the way, finding your right partner is probably the biggest sale of our life, to try and convince somebody, they should spend the rest of their life with us. Right. And so with that, we need to be able to read the other person, we need to be able to build that relationship without the relationship, nothing's gonna happen.


Roy Barker  07:41

Right, exactly. So, um, you know, so many times that we spend, I guess, not being what we call an active listener. You know, we've, I think it's something that's not new, but it's come along, but it's also, I think it goes with the what you said, because that's saying, We've got two ears listen twice as much. But now we've got, you know, as you point out, we've got two wise. So I guess now, instead of trying to formulate, you know, maybe the first sentence that comes out of your mouth, I'm already thinking, alright, this is what I've got, if he'll just ever quit talking for just a minute, this is what I'm going to say. And you know, sometimes we spend our time instead of listening or watching or paying attention, we're just waiting a an opening to jump in and kind of spew whatever we might have to say,


Alan  08:33

that's it. And the end result we're doing that we're not building relationship, the more we can focus on the other person, if you know, whatever we're if we're selling, for instance, it's all about being able to build that strong relationship. And to do that, we have to give them the ample time to be able to get their message across. And then we need to be able to listen to that we need to be able to respond in conversation. So I don't walk in and try and solve somebody, I want to find out what's important to them why it's important, why not only why they need it, but why they want it and what's things behind that. And to do that, you just got to shut out. The choice. Right?


Roy Barker  09:11

So is it better? You know, I guess, kind of walk us let's talk about the sales process. First off, that's a good one. But you know, we want to put some questions out there, we always want to ask probing question, but then, like you said, kind of walk us through how we want to set back what we some things that we may want to watch for, as they answer these probing questions.


Alan  09:32

One of the things is before I actually go and see somebody, I've already done everything I can to find out about their personality. And the good thing about it with the profiling that I do, all I need to do is see their photograph, whether it be a website photo or LinkedIn profile or anything like that. I can then I'll know their personality. Okay, so I don't even have to ask him a single question. It's like somebody walks past me in the street. I've got them. Wow. And then I know how to speak to them. Because if I look at you, for instance, I know that you're analytical or certain degree, you need a certain amount of information before you make your decision. Once you've made the decision, get out of the way, let me get it done. So you're not going to look for all the different possibilities is not the best one getting into it, and move on to the next project after that. So if I know that, I know that there's going to be a lot of information you're going to be asking for. So I know you're going to ask me questions. If I just give you an overview. You'll try and stop me and get more information on each item as I go. Right. Now, if I want to set the conversation up with you, I'd say, Well, look, Roy, there's a lot of information in here, but so I don't forget anything, what I want to do is just put it all on the table, first of all, give you the overview. And then we go back and spend as much time as you need to cover every aspect of what's out. Okay, I get the yes from you. I started to give the overview. And if you interrupt me, then I can say, Well, as I said before, right, it's, it's really important that I don't forget anything, and that's going to be important to you. So I'm getting yeses from you. We're getting your confirmation of that. And then I can put on the table because say if I'm, if I'm the person who just needs the overview, first of all, that's why I need to put the information out to you. But also, I need to know to know that you need that time, you've already get all your answers as well, I pre frame the conversation before we even start. And that's interesting. I


Roy Barker  11:21

mean, and you know, for full disclosure, I think that we've spoken this a couple times maybe for as little as 15 or 20 minutes. Very good call, you know, I do feel I am very analytical. That's I've just always been in that role in my life. And it's kind of taken at home. But so. So what are some of the clues, either that you've picked up, as we have been talking or, you know, looking at LinkedIn, or pictures? What are some things that were the giveaway for that?


Alan  11:54

Oh, look, well, first of all, when I meet somebody for the first time, the very first thing I'm going to do is, if we're meeting in real life, we're going to be close to each other, I need to know first of all, how much space Do you need. Because if I come into close, I'm highly affable, I'm quite comfortable standing close to people for the first time, very close to them. Some people need space, not that they're not friendly. But the more that they're more discerning, they want to check out who's safe to be around and who's not safe to be around. That one, you'll find in the height of the eyebrows, the higher the eyebrows are set away from the eyes that are bigger the gap between the upper eyelid and the eyebrow, the more that person needs some space. And the way I measure that one looking vertically through the pupil. If I imagine a vertical line, because people have different shaped eyebrows, I'm looking for the gap at that particular point, it tells me how much space that person needs. So when I walk up to them, if they got high set eyebrows, I'll stop just before they get to me put my hand out and I let them set up the space that they need. Now I know that whether I've got rapport with them, if you're if there's a lot of noise around, and we've been talking for a while and I lower my voice, if they lean in, then I know that they're comfortable with me now. And it's also interesting while I'm talking about interesting though, I can test everything because I go but on the one with yourself analytical but not super analytical to the point this is in the actual eyelids, exposure itself. With people looking at the video here, they'll see that you've got a bit of a folder skin and the eyelash comes close to it but doesn't go right underneath it. Where the eyelash goes underneath the guy that goes underneath that folder skin, you'll have somebody then who is highly analytical when there's no gap, no line there at all, there's a large gap to between it, you've got somebody who is more big picture, they just want the overview, the least amount of information, they would like they're on a mountain peak, and there's another mountain peak and they got to get from one mountain peak to the other one. They just want to know where's the bridge. Whereas somebody who's highly analytical, we'll go down the mountain checking all the details out across the valley. before they even got the other side they've worked out where they want to get there on. And so they will take longer to make a decision. They also need more information. So if I've got somebody who's highly analytical, I'm not going to give them too much. Give them just the overview. I'll set it out that way. But I'll be waiting for them to ask me a lot of questions. And I'll keep answering the questions as long as they're asking them because I know while they're asking questions, they're interested. And I know that they're getting what they need, which is all the information if it's somebody who just wants the overview, and I'm analytical, I would say to them look, there is a lot of information here. I'm going to give you the overview. You ask the questions that you want to ask and I know there's not going to be too many but also the outside look if there's something there that I think you need to know that you haven't asked Is it all right if I asked you that that and so now i given the overview, okay, what questions I got they ask those questions and then if there's something they have an accent I think they need to know also will remember I said before there might be something you need to know that boring stuff within hours that okay I generally get like a smartphone getting for you as a smile and a nod, that I can give them that information. But see, by doing it that way, instead of me just hitting them with all the information, which is me talking at them, right now I'm having a conversation with a where we're talking together backwards and forwards. And so that this whole thing, so the whole thing is to be able to read the other person and know that, how to make them comfortable, and how to give him the information that they need the sale, if you're selling something the sale will take as long as it needs to take based on their personality.


Roy Barker  15:32

Interesting. So I guess, you know, you mentioned the the nod and the smile, what are some other keys that we can pick up from? And I did like the one about the you know, when you lower your voice, somebody leans in and let you know that they're comfortable and interested, but what are their other I guess reactions or facial, you know, besides just turning up the nose or frowning? You know, are there other things that we can look for in that as well on that exchange?


Alan  16:02

You know, when the talking to us, or things, what we call micro expressions. They're very quick expression expressions on the face that happened. At the moment something is said or something happens. If we think about it, we know that and by the way, the way these work, how many times have you been speaking to somebody, everything sound perfectly fine, but you've had that gut feeling something was wrong. Now, what you'll find is the tone of voice, the body language, the expressions on their face is something that is out of whack, unconsciously with recognize it. But then consciously, we don't know what we're saying, we just know something's not right now, with this with a micro expression, they will appear as soon as something is said or something happens. For instance, out of the cornea, right, you might see something that's on the ground. So we get a feeling of surprise, because all while is that we turn around and then realize it's only a piece of, you know, a twig or something like that all rolled up hose. And so we go, Okay, now it's fine. In that one moment, it's as fast as a fifth of a second to 1/25 of a second, the unconscious mind reacts, when the conscious mind steps in, and the expression disappears. And sounds pretty fast to being a fifth of a second or even 1/25 of a second, we're down to about 40 milliseconds, it's extremely quick, however, the eye picks it up. And the unconscious mind definitely picks it up. But once you've got the unconscious mind tuned in, you're understanding what's going on, you're able to pick all this up. And there are seven expressions which are universal, doesn't matter if you've been born in a capital city, or tribal village, being blind from birth, if you feel one of those emotions, you'll have the corresponding expression on your face. And you're looking for that. Okay, but I'll put this caveat in here, people understand this. Not it's like when I'm reading someone's profile, their personality, not one trait on it only on its own defines you. It's a combination of all the traits together. Now, it's the same thing with the nonverbal indicators that tell you what's going on emotionally. You need to look at as many as you possibly can. But the old saying that somebody with folded arms, they closed off. Well, it could be that they're cold for a myriad of different reasons. Right? It could be that you intimidate them, because they've got you up on a pedestal. But what all the other indicators saying if they feel are facing towards the door, they're leaning back, they're facing starting to lean away from you? Yeah, okay, they are closed off. If your arms are folded, and they're leaning forward, feet straight towards you, they're nodding, they are responding to your conversation as you're talking, then they're interested. But the arms are just giving themselves possibly a little warm hug, because, or it could be their cold. It could also be that they're intimidated with you a lot of reasons. But if they unfold their arms on talking to them, and they still got the indicators, and all the other indicators are facing towards me. I know they're even more switched on now. Yeah. They're more interested in what they were before.


Roy Barker  19:02

Yeah. And so what about I actually just written that down? And so that thank you for answering that. Because about the folded arms. What about the next one was setting with your hands folded on a table? And I think, you know, some of that is, if I'm leaning into what if we're at a conference table? If I'm leaning in towards you, versus leaning back? Is there that have any significance?


Alan  19:27

Well, hey, it's actually sitting here. This is why my hands were on my lap. So I'm certainly not dis interested in what you're, you're asking me and everything goes, you're so kind to actually be interviewing me, which I'm very appreciative of. So this is just me feeling comfortable. If I'm leaning forward, then what do you do? Do you have your hands out like that? They feel awkward. Yeah. This just makes it feel a little bit more comfortable. As far as people might say off. That's because you know, you're trying to give yourself another hug again. Yeah. I do these talks regularly. It's not about being nervous or anything goes. Yeah, it's just that it's a comfortable way. I do think I've probably been doing that since I was a kid. I was a habit more than anything else. Because I said, What's all the other indicators showing you? Yeah, no, just take one on his own.


Roy Barker  20:15

Yeah. No, that's good. The other thing that I tried to look at, too, is the engagement. If if we're talking and before we start interviews, make it clear with my guests that, you know, when I'm bending down and writing, I'm taking notes constantly, not only for myself to remember, but you know, as things come up, I may ask questions, so. So that's really not, you know, I'm not disengaged, for sure. I'm very interested. But, you know, let's just say we're having a meeting and conversation, people that are constantly turning away and don't know, I don't have my phone's not in, not close. But you know, you could tell if I pick my phone up, if I'm always distracted. A lot of times, you know, people, well, I will say people close to me, sometimes I'm say, hey, look, I need your full attention. You know, I'm trying to communicate something to you, I don't mind being a little bit more abrupt and straightforward. But when we're in a business negotiation, or a business phone call, I'm probably not quite that abrupt. I may say, you know, if you have a question or try to redirect, but let's talk about that from it. A lot of times people say, Well, I'm multitasking, you know, I can think about this. And that, which, I don't know, I've read a lot of a lot of literature lately, that says that is certainly a myth that, you know, our brain can perform one function at a time, we may have three or four balls in the air, we can do that. But I can't simultaneously be typing a text message to somebody and listening to what you're telling me.


Alan  21:51

That's exactly right. See, as far as multitasking goes, it's a myth. Absolutely. The people that say that they can. That's ego, because as you said, the brain can only handle one goal at a time. There's when people talk about multitasking, when you think about multitasking, there was things that were happening at the same time down the same pathway. And there's things like time division, you'd something we'd go out, somebody else would follow behind it. And something behind that. Yeah. So there's a switching on and switching off. So when you multitask, and you think you're multitasking trying to do two things at once the brains going on and off, on and off, every time it goes off, it's like putting the brakes on coming up with satellites, you slow down, then you accelerate away. So you're actually extending the period, here's a little test that people can do, if they've got a piece of paper, or a whiteboard or whatever. Yet, you're talking your stopwatch out and time yourself, write the numbers one to 26, and then write the alphabet a through to Zed. And see how long that takes you. Then go one, a two, B, three, C, write them down in that way. And I guarantee even though you've written down the same numbers, and the same letters, it will take you longer on people, it takes them two and a half times as long. Some people only 10% longer. But there is nobody can do it in exactly the same time, which proves that you cannot multitask. So somebody is doing something else. In a meeting, what I'd actually say to him is, well look, I can see that there's there's something else, it's more important. You want to get onto that, and reschedule that usually means that you got to walk out and wasted that period of time. You're putting it you're also showing that you have importance, don't they find not as important, you may think the phone's more important than me. But I'm more important when we've had this meeting. This is a post about mutual respect, right? So I'm happy to pull them up on that. And say, Well, look, you know, Let's reschedule for another time when you've got a bit more time to do this. Okay? Because if they're not listening to they're doing that, and I'm trying to assault on wasting my time anyway, it's gonna buy exactly the Why should I continue anymore? They've already disrespected me and everything goes, No, I'm out of there. Thank you very much.


Roy Barker  24:07

Yeah. And, you know, you mentioned the whiteboard. That's another exercise, but also I was just thinking about, you know, props and PowerPoint slides or, you know, some kind of material that we're trying to share with somebody to what are some reads that we can get from them? If we've, you know, passed them a piece of paper, if they're looking at it, taking it in doesn't really matter. Are there things that we can pick up from that?


Alan  24:35

Well, what I used to do, instead of just getting him to look at something, I'll have it partially prepared. Like, I'll use blueprints when I'm explaining things to people. And I'll get them to go to write things in. So if we're talking about science in a sale, for instance, I'll be asking, Well, how much you know how many sales you're missing, etc. How much money is that per sale, I get them to write that down or I write it down and show And then I'll be sitting in a position where I've got their engagement, right. But the more you can get them engaged, the more they focus there. If you give them something to read, then you need to get them to show you going through it with you. Because if you don't, you got to put a large sheet of paper in front of me, and it's all black and white, and everything goes on. I'm trying to listen to somebody I can't read at the same time. As I said, I can't multitask. Nobody. Can you give them time to read through that you might ask him, okay, can you check out this first paragraph or whatever it might be? And then ask about what do you think about that. So always go to get the engagement. As you said before, you said, You pre frame that this is the thing always pre frame, what you want to do. You've pre framed it by telling me that, because I can't see down below your shoulders, I can't see your desk, I can't see the notes or the pen or anything else. So if you're looking away all the time, I can make the mistake and assume that you're not interested. But you've already pre framed it by having say to me, Look, it's an All right, I'm going to be taking some notes, because I want to make sure that if any questions come up, I can react. And so you're telling me what's going on. So every time you look down, I'm not giving that a second thought. Yeah.


Roy Barker  26:10

Yeah, no, that's good. That just gets back to communication. Sometimes it's just good that we just have that conversation that takes away any doubt that we may have. So let's talk about, you know, a situation came up the other day talking to a guest actually, and he was just kind of, he was just reiterating a situation that had happened to him that he had, he was a site in sales, been talking to a client, they had been saying, Yeah, you know, everything's good, we're good. They had been going down this path for some period of time. And as they were hanging up a phone call on a conference call, somebody on the other end said something to the effect of, we're really not going to buy from this guy, but I want you to get all the information that we possibly can out of him. So you know, as we are going through, and I will say the sales process is a little different than, you know, maybe the hard negotiation. But as we're going through that process, what are some keys that we can pick up on because we don't want to waste our time. And if you're not going to be a buyer, I need to move on. And I don't want to be there just to feed you information or help give you leverage against another supplier, things like that. But are there things that we can read? that may help us know, if we have to ask some reaffirming questions to say, Look, I'm kind of getting this vibe from you? Are you really interested? Do we really need is there really any reason to move forward.


Alan  27:42

If they're, you know, sitting with you where you can see them, you're always watching for their body language and everything else. But remember to if you are somebody who's analytical, the impulse here is to talk is to give them a lot of information. Well, you don't know what they're getting, you know, unless you can read their facial expressions and their body language and know that they're interested in or not. The style is not made in talking to them. The style is made is made in listening to them. So it's a matter of getting them to ask, you know, ask them a couple of questions, get them to respond back. Then listen to what they're saying. As I said before, you've got two eyes and two ears. You know, listen to what they're saying as well. Then ask them questions. And while you're asking the questions, watch to see the responses. They their interest in everything else. If they're nodding at the right times and leaning in, they're asking questions. And as they're giving you information, like a good interviewer, you're always going to be asking them questions to re qualify what they've said, you're taking a deeper and deeper because I've got a friend of mine, who always talks about the ATM equals the ATM. So the ATM being the automatic teller machine, okay, and the ATM being the emotions time and money, because we only do things to save money, make money, and to save time. And the third one is the emotional reason why we're doing it. So yes, we have a need. We therefore we have a want around that. But beyond the one what is the things beyond that, that tell us why that person really wants that? What are the emotional connections, because if we're only satisfied in the sale, when we're emotionally satisfied, we're 18% logic and 82% emotion. So until the emotional side has said, you haven't got a sale, okay? You have to get them into where they're responding to you. They're telling you all they need to tell you they're telling you about why it's important to them what they're going to get out of it by having and shaving all this that is allowing them to talk themselves into the sale. If you do it properly. You're not selling but the other person is buying,


Roy Barker  29:45

right? Okay. No, that's awesome. I know this, I knew this was gonna go by fast I just had there's so much to talk about let's let's kind of switch over to our personal relationships. You know, spouses love ones girlfriends, let's talk about that. Some things, and I would put it, I'm gonna put this on me and say, not only what I pretty much know what to be looking for, and when to turn and run, I've, I've, you know, it's like I've made, I've lived this long, so I know how to survive. jokingly, but you know, what are some things that we can do are as in to better communicate with our spouses, the body language and show them that we're interested in their problem or whatever's going on at that time.


Alan  30:33

Excellent. Well, I've got what I call the seven secrets to reading people is the very first three for the most important. The first one is to know yourself, first of all. Second one is to know your partner. And the third one is then to speak to them in the way that they need to be spoken to. So don't talk in the way that you need to be spoken to match the way that they need to be spoken to write. And the more that we understand our part, the better off we are, but knowing where we are, first of all on the world scale, where do we fit? And then we look at the other person, where do we fit in comparison to them? So do I have to give them more information? Or I have to give them more time to listen to them? What do I need, will both have aesthetic appreciation how inside. So I know that when you're got something on your plate, when you're busy, you're going to withdraw into your Cove, you want to fix it yourself, just leave me alone to get it done. Now, if you've got a partner who has what I call dramatic appreciation, and they need to know what's going on, and they'll come up and go, and they'll just start asking you questions and more they ask you questions, the more you then disappear in the UK. So it's like this choice. And all of a sudden, then they're going well, what's wrong? Why aren't you talking to me, but they haven't recognized that you need space to be able to work on solving. So in their case, if they've got the drydock appreciation, you've got to take appreciation if they know that you need to work on something if they just came up and had two questions in a statement. First question, Is this something that that is good to me? It's something that I can fix. Now, what's not? Okay, is anything I can help you with? No, there's not, then becomes a statement. Okay, I know that Roy, you need to be able to work on things this on your own at some you've got your mind on, I'm going to leave you alone to do that, can you come and talk to me when you're finished. And at that point, you feel like you'd have to run back in the UK to get away from all this chatter. You're able to work on it, you're more appreciative or more likely go back and see them in your partner's case or the medical present, you can hear the talking about all the things that are stressing them. You've got one question? Is this something you want me to fix? Or is this something you want me to just listen to? Because I can do either, right? And if your partner then goes, No, it's I don't want you to fix it. I just want you to listen, then you go, Okay, fine, you know that they need to vent. So if you care about your partner, you just listen without any stress, you know, it's they're having a shot about somebody else. If they say yes, I want you to fix it. But it's either something you can fix or possibly something that you did in the first place I want you to fix. But now you know what your instructions are. And nice men always go to the fixing role, right? women go into being able to share it, because they've put it off the ones with a dramatic appreciation, right? There has been gender changes, and a lot of men who are like this as well. But the women will need to voice it, but the man needs to fix it. But the problem is we don't communicate in between. But by saying to the woman, first of all asking her that question, Is this something talking with writing appreciation by asking them? Is this something you want me to fix? Or just listen, you've shown that acknowledgement. And they will be appreciative of that. Don't just jump in and try and fix it. Yeah, and don't run away because they Oh my god, they're drama queens. Yeah. And by the way, every trade has an upside and every trade has a downside. There's no right or wrong trade. Whatever trades you have the nurture traits, or the nature traits, first of all, that were passed down in the DNA from your parents, because every memory we have is stored every cell of our body. So at the time of conception of a child, memories of both parents are passed down to that child. That's why each of our children the generation of first child and the second child and the third child are different is because we are we are different when we conceived them their memories are different. So that's your your nature drives there in, in, in the DNA, then we have our response on nurture, which is our response to our environment. Those some of those traits are going to be in those children. So when we're talking to him, the more we can understand the other person, the more we can connect with them on their level. So when we put the traits together, that's when we can define someone's personality but not define them on one trade on its own. Yeah, dramatic appreciation rate for presenting natural presented so that Write on stage and everything because they don't have to practice. I had to practice a lot before I was able to be animated and more entertaining on stage. Whereas the dramatic appreciation just walked out and had it. But the downside the trade is when they're stressed to me another aesthetic appreciation people that will come across as drama queens, they want to other people like them, as I said, no right or wrong, right. But it'll be the fact that they were very expressive, and everything's our exciting to be around, which will be the reason why I was attracted to them. Yeah. But then if I get used to that, yeah, the excitement because something that we get every day is like, we might have a favorite food, really love it. But if we ate it every day, we get bored with it over a period of time, we wouldn't like it anymore. So now we've noticed the downside of the trade. And we say our partners changed. No, they haven't our awareness items changed. So if we understand when we know how to speak to them, we can then circumvent all those issues, and bring the romance back into the relationship. And this is where marriage counseling can be done in the flesh. Okay.


Roy Barker  36:07

Yeah. And that's awesome. That is something I will say I'm very bad about is always that fixer, you know, it's like, here's a problem, oh, I've got a solution for you. And where it's like, I wasn't looking for a solution. I just was trying to, you know, blow off some steam and just let you talk. So yeah, definitely guilty of that. One thing he did bring up is the, in the way you speak, and something I've heard in the past that we should try to not necessarily with our spouse, but with people in general, if we're talking to them, we should try to match their speed, cadence volume. And sometimes, if you pay a tension really close, you can bring somebody back down. If you know, like, I know a guy, that's a really fast talker. And sometimes I just have to even start talking very slow to bring him back down. Is there any truth to that working and having a better conversation with somebody when you can match that?


Alan  37:06

Yeah, there is that there is a conscious way of doing it. And there's the unconscious way of doing it. The conscious way is where we're, we're trying to match and mirror. Now, we're looking at looking at them, we're watching them, and everything goes and we try and match with them. But our concentration is on us, looking at them, but trying to change ourselves. When we focus unconsciously on somebody we really focus in on them. It's surprising how we then start to match them without even thinking about, okay, is having processed it. And if you process it, and you think right, when they lift their hand, I'll do the same sort of thing, or they lift their right handle, lift my right hand to, to match it, or I'll lift my left hand and when they got their right hand up to mirror. And mirroring, by the way usually has a faster impact than the matching. Okay, so go on stage, you'll always find that most people are right handed. And when you ask questions, we'll see the announcer will actually put their left hand up and say like, What does everybody think? Does everyone agree with this? Put your hand up? If you do, everyone actually goes with their right. We presented some of their lives. So there's a natural the natural connection straightaway. That's why the presenter doesn't just ask the question. He also does, he or she does some movement. Yeah. And so it has an impact. But when you're able to really focus in on the other person, it's surprising how you automatically change with them. You can try this as well, one of the things is that I'll go into a, I've taken people into large gatherings, I go to the unlock in the room. And they might look at somebody on the other side of the room, they could be a male or a female, the other person as well. And they'll pick out somebody, okay, just watch them. watch their breathing, and just start to try and get in rhythm with their breathing. See the way they're standing and everything goes the other person on the other side of the room is not even looking in their direction. But over a little period of time. They'll turn around and they'll notice you. So if you ever want to connect with somebody, by matching them in that particular way, you will get their attention because we're energy beings, we pick things up. How often have you walked into a room and you've got on Oh, I don't want to be here. You've picked up the energy thrown away or other times have walked in. You got all this is really nice. Yeah. Right? Because we pick that stuff up. Whether you like it or not, whether you think that's all crazy. You think it's all woowoo and esoteric and everything else. It is a science, that once you understand that, you can then use that to connect with people. Yeah. So when I'm going into a meeting, I'll have a quick look. As I come in, I'll see how people are sitting in everything, call us I'll see how they're breathing. And I'll try and match that forget that incident report. From there. Then I'll just listen to them and the more I focus in on them, I just naturally match and mirror them without even thinking about it. And as soon as I've done that They're also feeling more comfortable as well, because it's, we feel comfortable, we got people who are just like us. That's why we all our friends are very similar to us. And so the more I can then do that, but do it naturally, and not be seen to be trying to deliberately do it in the connections always much stronger.


Roy Barker  40:20

It's very interesting. So before we wrap up, you'd mentioned three, three of your seven, what can you tell us? What number four or five, six and seven are?


Alan  40:31

Well, that comes into looking at the the micro expressions, okay, and the other is, but what I'll do if you like, I'll give you a link. Yeah, it's a free download. Okay, you can share it with your audience and check it out for themselves. No,


Roy Barker  40:43

that'd be great. No, I'd certainly like that. And also, before we wrap up, too, I want to get you to talk for just a minute about the campfire project that you have.


Alan  40:54

Okay, well, with all my work with people in business, especially with the men, when I was asking him, you know, about what was the main thing that you have confusions, what areas did they have issues with? And I said, well, confusion was a big problem. And I said, In what way? And they said, Well, look, in the family, we were told our job, we grew up this way, our job was to go out and you know, pay the mortgage and everything else earn the income be the breadwinner. But now we're in trouble. Because we're absent from home, we're emotionally disconnected, and with, which can be in two places at once. And at the same time, in the workplace, we've got all these gender issues, political correctness, and the way we used to be able to talk to each other. Now we're so on tender Hawk to be very careful about what we say. And it's, and that's picking up creating problems, because people not trusting us anymore, because we're not ourselves. And I realized that all of that was causing a lot of frustration. And we know that things like domestic violence come from when one party is completely frustrated. Now you've got you're used to that small percentage of people who are just absolutely nasty, but for the bulk of the others, it's a case of, it's the frustration, and then when you're frustrated, you get angry, when you get angry, then things start to happen. And I realized also that in the workplace, in 2016, it was 66% of people were disengaged in the workplace, that rose to 87%, just before COVID in 2018. Wow. And that's gone up again, with all of the isolation. So I realized that men needed a safe place where they could come along and feel, give themselves permission, feel free to tell their stories that have somebody just sit and listen without criticism, without trying to fix anything, but just hold that space for them. It's like being pushed with, you're out there with your mates, you're sitting around a campfire, there's a connection, there's a camaraderie you don't get anywhere else. So I created the campfire project for that. I went through a process with the Aboriginal community of back 1820 years ago now, and went through initiation. And that was bringing boys into manhood. And so it was, how do we help boys to become men. But then the second stage from there was how do we help men to become better men. And so I realized that by bringing many in, they could tell their stories, then we brought them into panel discussions. And they'll be able to discuss all different issues and no subjects being off the table, we will talk about anything and everything. But I didn't want to just to be a men's group, where the women were going, you know, one of the men doing that. And I thought, right, at the same time, it's like going to a motivational seminar, you can be all excited, had a great time you go home, and everybody tells you a why work, you're waiting for the next seminar. And I could see that with a lot of men's groups. And so I realized I needed something that runs 20 473 165 days a year, where any man could go in. But at the same time, I didn't want them to come in and then go out and get hit in the face by the real world by there's a lot of trolls out there, both males and females, they want to keep pulling things down because their lives rubbish, they want to have everybody else's same state, right? So and then the men want to rush back in again. So I've had women in there from day one. And that was an opportunity for the women to hear how men can really speak when they feel safe to do so. At the same time, I wanted the men to note that women were listening to them. So the one on ones were pre recorded. If somebody said something in that you always shouldn't have said that. I'll hit the delete key, not a problem. I haven't wasted my time because I've fulfilled my purpose, which was to give them space to actually hold space for them because they've never had a chance to voice things before I've done that for them. We then put those videos up if they're happy with it, then I've only had two that people asked to redo it again another time. And in that then the women couldn't contain themselves especially when I started doing the panel discussions. I was getting personal messages saying never heard men talk like this before. We love it. We want to talk to them because this is a depth they're going to that we've never heard men do before. So I interviewed the women one on one, which was what I wanted to do from day one, but I was waiting for them. And then I brought him into the panel discussions. In just over two and a half years now we've had close to 271 on ones. And we've had a about 130, something candor and 33 panel discussions. But you might consider close enough to 400 hours of interviews and panel discussions in two and a half years. All video we're not once there's any man or woman being rude to anybody else. Well, total respect. By having no hashtag we together. As I say, if you're going to individual groups, they're looking at each other as the problem. Yeah, when you're together, shoulder to shoulder, you're looking at the problem. And you're fixing it together, not looking at each other as the problem. And so in that it just keeps growing. And what I've been doing is getting, because I've interviewed people from all over the world, both men and women. And it's getting more and more people in because the moment we had people came in, no bigotry, no racism, no way gender issues or cultural issues, sexism or anything else, all of that stuff. completely gone. Wow. And so just proving that if we want to make a change in the world, it's a matter of choice and nothing else. Each person choosing to be that way. Weber advocated all of that immediately. And I can't do that, you know, locally across the world to everybody, at least I can create an environment where those that want to be that way can come in and is for that's the Campfire Project.


Roy Barker  46:31

Wow, that is awesome. So tell everybody, first off, how can they reach out look at, you know, some information if they want to get involved? How do they get involved in the Campfire Project. And then also tell us how we can get a hold of Alan Stevens. If we want to talk more about how we can read people the art of reading people for, you know, business negotiation, relationships all throughout our life.


Alan  46:56

Like I will follow the Campfire Project is I created the closed group, but there's also a business page as well, a community page, okay, does anybody who comes in and tells their one on one, if they're a coach, for instance, the idea was anyone who totally one on one, if then we have a coach who comes in and they want to tell their story. And I always encourage them to do that, because they're looking for clients. How do you know if you've got a good coach or not? You need to know the god the experience, or by telling them one on one story, you know, they've got the experience. So a lot of them are picking up clients through that, which is great, because my job is facilitate that connection, not endorsed and facilitate. So people can make their own decision on them. Right, right. And so they then can advertise the projects and things that they're running. And I got right, we've got all the videos in the campfire page group, and therefore the cue meeting page, that's where we advertise it, because we advertise the talks we've got in there on that community page that allows people to come in, get the curiosity and then come and join the group. And so if they just do a search on the campfire project, I'll find the community page, go to the community page and like that, and then you'll see the ads for the talks that we've done in the group, click on one of those, and that'll take you to the group page. From there, you can join that. Okay, so questions when you come in? both have the same question, but rephrase. And then at the end, it's mostly asking, will you be respectful to everybody? And people said, Why did I do the same question twice? Well, simply because these are two chances you've answered yes to being respectful to everybody twice. You're disrespectful to somebody and that you're out with I don't care if you're male or female, I don't care who you been disrespectful to your hours, and you say out until you can prove that you've got you can be respectful before you can come back in again. And to contact me, there's my name, Alan So Alan with one L, a l a n s t e v e n, for Australia. And you'll find my web page where you'll find a lot of what I call success stories, people talking about what they've achieved. Kids with parents with their children with autism and Asperger's and the results they've got others just raising their children been in business in mental health because it works in all areas. This stuff. Yeah, you'll find that on the union contact me through the contact page.


Roy Barker  49:17

Okay, great, Allen. Well, thank you so much. It's been awesome. A lot of great information y'all go check out Alan's page. I'm gonna put I'll put the seven secret secrets up in the in the notes of this podcast, as well as your contact information and about the campfire project too. So, again, thanks a lot. that's gonna do it for this episode of a the business of business podcast. You can find us of course at We are on all the major social media platforms as well as podcast platforms. iTunes, Stitcher, Google Spotify for not a one that you listen to regularly, please let me know No, I'll be glad to have that added. So until next time, take care of yourself and take care of your business.