Mar 29, 2021
Learn How To Create A Successful Online Course in Just 30 Days with Heather Deveaux
Course creation online is a great idea to educate your prospects or even generate another revenue stream. The pandemic has made it more of a necessity for businesses. Heather's motto is Think Big. Move FAST. She has a step-by-step plan to help you create a meaningful online course in 30 days. That's right, one module a week for four weeks! You got this.
Heather Deveaux: Big Thinker. Fast Mover.
I am the leading instructional design coach for entrepreneurs who want to create online courses faster, easier, and with more impact. I was creating online courses back in 2008 - when most people hadn’t even signed up for an email account yet!
I’ve been creating workshops, courses, and curriculum of all shapes and sizes since 2000 and my programs have reached thousands of people across 4 continents, 8 countries and spanned countless industries including medicine, finance, defense, cryptocurrency, tech, fashion, business, career, workplace training and more.
I’ve got the street cred and the education to back it up: I have a Masters degree in Adult Education, I’m a Certified Coach, Certified Tutor & Instructor, and Certified Train-the-Trainer. Plus, I’ve created courses for all of these certifications over the years. So meta, I know.
Basically, if you need someone to teach you how to create online courses fast, I’m your girl.
Full Transcript Below
Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Learn How To Create A Successful Online Course in Just 30 Days (00:00:02):
Hello, and welcome to another episode of the business of business podcast. This is Roy glad you could join us. You know, we are a podcast that we try to bring, um, all disciplines of business to try to help you out in your struggles or try to help you be more successful every day. Uh, today we are fortunate enough to have Heather Deveaux and she is with Heather devote instructional design. And we're going to talk about online classes, online training. We're going to talk about how to, you know, just set up a good online, uh, presentation and kind of how we would run that process. So Heather, thank you so much for being with us and taking time out of your day.
Thanks for, I am excited to be here. It's good to see you
Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Learn How To Create A Successful Online Course in Just 30 Days (00:00:49):
To see you as well. Heather is an old friend of the show. It's been a, it's been a couple of years, so we're glad to have her back. And you know, this is a very timely topic, uh, especially with the, uh, you know, still in the midst of the pandemic, but, uh, we were talking pre-show about that. You know, this is probably something that's not going to come to an end. Uh, anytime soon, even if the pandemic were to get under control, I think, uh, working remotely, um, reaching our audiences remotely, uh, people getting used to, instead of going to a yoga studio, you know, nowadays they're doing online. So I think we're gonna, I think we're going to see this continued through time, so it's great to be here, but, um, you know, what are some things that we need to consider? You know, just like myself. Okay. I, you know, I woke up this morning and thought, Hey, I'm thinking about doing some instructional stuff over, um, putting it out there. So what would be some things that a business person would need to consider about developing the content?
Yeah, that's a great question, Roy. I think really, you know, the idea that people are just trying to put band-aids on things right now, we have to sort of let go of that thought, right? That frame of mind at anything you're creating right now is it shouldn't be a quick fix, you know, like there's there shouldn't, you shouldn't be out there looking for things that are just going to sort of plug the holes to get you over the hump. Um, because I think to your point, um, and I know that this is a narrative that a lot of people are talking about right now. I think when you're making that sort of jump from where you were nine months ago, and a lot of businesses are still trying to figure that out to where you're going to be now, or even in 2021, you know, the, the hope everyone keeps talking about, like, we want to go back to normal.
Um, but to me, it's as an instructional designer and someone who helps people create online courses, it doesn't make any sense that you would invest all that time, invest all that money really. Cause it always comes down to the mighty dollar. You would invest all that time and money and then want to go back from that. Right? And I think one of the very first things you have to realize when you go down this road, number one is it's not a temporary fix. You're simply moving your business in a different direction. Um, and number two, that what you've done so far is not for not, you've not lost that momentum, you know, things have certainly slowed for a lot of people, but there are ways that you can take what you already have and turn it into something completely different without it costing a lot of money without taking a lot of time.
And without it being something that's just for now. And so I think, you know, my advice right off right at the top of the hour would be that when you approach these things, don't approach them from a temporary mindset because you're going to get so much value your customers and your audience is going to get so much value from this that you're going to number one, wonder why you weren't doing it all along. And then number two, how do you maintain that? Like, you'll be looking to the future of how can I do more of these kinds of things, because you know, it used to be that if you were online, that that was, you were standing out, right? Cause there was a time when being online meant, that's how you reach more people right now, everyone's online. So now it becomes about, well, what are you pushing, right? What is the thing you're actually talking about? And how do you stand out online doing that? And I think anyone with a frame of mind that they're going to go back to normal where that this is just for now is going to end up, you know, they're going to end up holding, holding nothing because everyone else is going to keep moving forward without them. So I think that frame of mind definitely has to be forward-thinking and this is permanent.
Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Learn How To Create A Successful Online Course in Just 30 Days (00:04:25):
Yeah. Before we actually get into the mechanics, I think you bring up a lot of good points that probably are worth discussing now. Number one, uh, I do agree that this shouldn't be a band-aid, this is really a long-term, uh, play that we need to take that attitude and that approach. And not only for the pandemic, but you know, a couple things come to mind as, as you were talking as well, number one, um, we can meet people where they are when they're ready, because, um, you know, if, if you have, um, some kind of a business, it doesn't matter what maybe I can't get there from eight to five or your hours. And so, um, this is going to provide access some sort of access to people, um, 24 hours a day, seven days a week without you having to be there to help them. And then the other thing that kind of came to mind is, uh, this may be a sampling to actually lure people into your bricks and mortar or to pick up the phone and give you a call and they may can go on here and check this out and say, yeah, I liked this. I liked the flow or it's what I'm looking for. So I think there's a lot of great, great reasons to really consider this.
Yeah. I mean, certainly one of the things that I talk about in, in when I'm posting on social media or when I'm having conversations with potential clients is what you could do with this kind of technology. Right? And the technology is not new. We've been doing online learning for a long time. And it's funny, you know, because I follow some groups, different hashtags online about adult education. And that's what we're talking about. We're not talking about high school education. Those are different kinds of professionals that God love them. Um, you know, when we're talking about adults who freely come to learn and they're looking to businesses to help them learn, um, and you know, I work with entrepreneurs, so I'm talking about business, right? We're talking about the business of business here and B to B, what does that look like? Um, and, and you know, when you're, you're looking at this stuff and you're thinking about that, it, you know, one of the things that you want to consider is, is that certainly, yeah, you have to meet people where they are, but also when I'm talking to potential clients, it's about back delivery.
That delivery matters now more than ever, right? It can't just be you posting on social media all the time. And I used to do this. I used to be a content marketer. You know, that Roy, we worked together for a long time. Right, right. So I used to do this for a living and it always came down to it's about so much more than what you're posting, right? The post is just it's. I call it the head of the beast now, because it's the thing that starts to funnel everybody. You need a sales funnel, whether you want it or not. Um, but you, you need something like that. And you know, there's good ways to do that. And there's bad ways to do that. But when we're talking about this sort of head of the beast of the social media posts that draws people in your online course, whether that is a free course or a paid course, and there's lots of different ways to use both.
But one of the things I talk with potential customers about is for product based companies, having a free online course that is either a supplement or it is an instructional manual, or it's a, how to get the most out of your dollar. That's spent course is worth so much in the end because a product can only go so far as a client can see its use for it. But if you have an educational component to that, and you're showing your client 10 different ways to use this product, or 10 different ways to get value from that product, then all of a sudden, and you packages really nice together too. Right? So I buy the product. Maybe it makes my hair really shiny, but you're going to show me 10 other ways to use that product so that it, I can use it to, uh, you know, like maybe I can use some of it on my skin or I'm thinking of a product there's a bubble bath product on the market.
I can't remember who makes it, but people use it to like clean their ovens. So like, if you don't tell me, I can do that. Yeah. Like you don't tell me, I could do that. I don't know that I can do that. And so my brain, the way my brain works is when people are talking to me about their businesses, whether they have an online course or whether they even intend to create one, I'm always thinking like, Oh my God, that would make a great course. Because if you have to say something more than once in your business, it should be either at a frequently asked questions document, or it should be in an online course that you're giving away for free to engage people. Right. You know, so, you know, I, I appreciate that because there, there are lots of ways you could be using this stuff to build audience, to build capacity in your audience.
But it's also like if we're going back to the marketing sort of shtick, it's like, that is what marketing is, it's education. Right. And one of the best ways to stand out right now is to give, give, give, you know, we hear the old adage of like, you've got to just give everything. You've got to be able to get the attention of your customers. But if you're just giving it away on social media, it's just more noise. You know? It is like, everything is so noisy. No. But if you're drawing the men with, you know, that sort of head of the beast, social posts, like, look, I've got something here that is going to transform a part of your life or a part of your business, and yes, it's free. And we can talk about the difference between free and paid and mentally what that looks like.
But if, even if it's free, if I'm actually teaching you something and I'm not just using it to get your email, which is important, then you've heard my trust, right. When I'm scrolling through Instagram and I'm looking at you and you're just one more face and you're one more post, I have no reason to trust you. Sure. I follow you, but I've got no reason to trust you. Right. But if you teach me something, I will never forget you. Right. And so I think that we look at that and we think giving away means, well, I've got to be on Instagram or Facebook or, or whatever, all the time I've gotta be giving, giving, giving. Um, but the, the method or the sort of vehicle in which you give can actually have a huge impact on that giving and then ultimately on that transformation, which then leads to the trust. We're all dying to get from our customers.
Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Learn How To Create A Successful Online Course in Just 30 Days (00:10:21):
Yeah. And I think you make a good point that, you know, 10 years ago, if we had a social media account on any platform, you kind of stood out and, uh, your messaging was easier, but there is so much noise out there now, not only in our business space, but with just individuals that are on there competing for the same real estate. And then with the algorithms, you know, if, if you post something right, this moment, if somebody is not right, they're viewing it, that you're very closely connected to, then it's just going to be out there. And, uh, the chances go way down of anybody ever seen it. And the other thing you make a kind of made a point that made me think about something that happened yesterday is, um, a friend of mine has, I think she's nine or 10 years old.
Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Learn How To Create A Successful Online Course in Just 30 Days (00:11:07):
And so they, they gave me this, um, a little sample size and it was called sugar scrub. And of course I'm a dude, so I kind of laughed. And I thought, I thought it was a joke or something, you know, I thought they were gonna make me eat it or something like that. And they're like, no, no, no, you really put the stuff on. And it exfoliates and all this stuff. And, um, so I guess the other thing that we could use, these is a newer product that like, you know, I'm sure that women, you probably know exactly what I'm talking about, but if this was a newer product that nobody really knew, this would be an awesome in a duck introductory to say, what is this new thing? And how do you use it? What are the benefits of it? So, you know, kind of use it as a mini commercial or advertising. Yep.
Exactly. It is. It is. And that's what it is. Right. And when you have a container like that for, for free versus paid, right? Like when you're talking about free giving away, free courses online, the shorter it is. And the more to the point it is the more effective it's going to be because here's what happens with online courses that are free. And even some paid ones, the statistics on paid courses, and I make a living selling this stuff, but the statistics on them are very, very low. And one of the reasons why I get into this work was to make sure that the bar was raised for people creating online courses. I think there's a huge problem right now with overselling and under-delivering in the course creation world. So when you're talking about creating a free online course, it's really important. You know, you pick three or four things, you give it to them straight, you actually teach them something from it.
You don't just use it as a, the thing I hate, I'm just going to be really Frank. The thing I hate is when people say, come and take my four step system to learn how to do something right now, what I point out to people all the time is this is marketing. This is genius marketing because I get your email, but I don't actually give you anything in exchange for that. What I do is I stand there and I tell you the names of those four steps. I'll tell you how to do them. Right? You got to pay me as a first grader, learn how to do them. And I hate that approach. I hate it. Yeah. So what I do is I constantly talk about the steps that I'm offering and I break them down in all kinds of different places, right? If you did your homework, you could go and find everything I'm talking about.
But the reason that you have a course to sell is number one, people want accountability. Number two, they want systems. And number three, they want speed. Right? And when it comes to systems and speed, going to Google, going to parse my podcasts, going to look at my YouTube jail, going to read my Instagram posts. It's all there, but you've got to have the time and the interest to put it all together or you can buy my program. Right? And so the thing that I always try to do is to not just give a little, but I give it all. But it's the way in which you give it, that that one piece of information is enough to move somebody forward in some way, you know? So it's not that teaser like a hate teaser stuff. And you know, I'm a business owner. I've tried it all myself.
I've done all this stuff myself. So I know what works and I know what doesn't work and what doesn't work is telling someone, you're going to give them a free course where there's four ways to improve something. But then I teach you nothing about an actual improvement or just give you the pleaser. So I think it's really important, um, as a course creator, or as if people are thinking about creating courses, you know, really leading with the, the sense that they're raising the bar themselves for what they're going to teach, because, you know, if you're talking, you know, you see webinars, right? Like people are doing these webinars and these webinars are ahead of, there are part of that head of the beast. They're the way to get you into their sales funnel. And they're not courses that is not an online course, but a lot of people think it is.
And it's very different. And a webinar is a sales strategy. It's a marketing tactic, right? What an online course is a tool that transforms it's learner. And so I think when we talk about these things, there's a lot of overlap. There's a lot of confusion. Um, and I'm working really hard right now, so that people see the difference. Number one, number two, they can raise the bar for themselves so that they become business owners who actually deliver on what they said they'd deliver on. Right. And number three, that they can do it with accountability, with systems and speed. Because if you can create something like that, that means that your students, your customers can get that information that much faster. And you know what that creates trust. Right? You do those three things for people and they go, Oh yeah, okay. Maybe I'll buy from them.
Right. So it's, it's not anything new. I want to be really clear about that. Like, this is not reinventing the wheel. This stuff has been around a long time, but I think what's happened is it's almost been abused. You know, we've, we've discovered the short course called it a webinar and are now using it to peddle our wares in a way that leaves people going. It's just a sales pitch and that leaves a bad taste in people's mouth. And so if you're giving away a course, you exchange it for an email. Yes, you do that. But you give away what you said. You were going to give away. You're not giving a sales pitch, you're giving away something. That's going to help people to actually learn. And that's a big pet peeve of mine. It's really getting my goat right now because everybody's online trying to get online, even deeper, you know?
And so I popped up with this, this system in this program that I'm promoting three months ago, and now I'm really seeing this everywhere, this other way of doing it. Um, and it's interesting cause I've been doing this for 20 years. I've been doing online courses since 2008 and that's longer than Facebook's been around almost, you know? So it it's, it's, it's really transformed over the last few years from a course is no longer a product. You know, unfortunately when people think of online courses, they think of it as part of the sales funnel and they're calling it webinars and that is not what this is. Right. It's totally different. Yeah.
Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Learn How To Create A Successful Online Course in Just 30 Days (00:17:09):
Yeah. And I'm like you, and I see that a lot, like, you know, learn my four things you click over and then immediately it's, you know, give me your email and I've done it in the past. And then like you said, it's really just, well, the four things are one, two, three, four. Here's my course, if you'll sign for it and it, you know, to me, it's immediate distrust. And I think that's an important part is that, um, you know, P you don't, you only get one time to make a first impression. And if that's the first impression, people are going to steer clear of you, because they're going to think it's just another set up. So,
Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. I, um, I joined a program this year, um, to grow my business before I went in this direction with it. And it's funny because they were talking about scaling your business, which is real hot buzzword right now. Like, you know, like what are we scaling to? I don't know, I'm just getting lost in the buzzwords. But anyway, I signed up for this course. It was very expensive. And when I get in there, I realized they were teaching people how to do automated sales funnels, which sounds great, super sexy, but the logistics behind something like that, but it was a big scheme, right? It was, it was like, this course costs more than my first car. And I had a really nice first car. And this whole thing was that you could set up your business so that you never have to work at it.
Right. And I went, okay, all right, I'll give it a try. So I tried it and I ended up working more to just to maintain that funnel. Then I did, when I went back to just genuine sales calls, like, yeah, if you're going to book a call with me, I'm going to talk to you about my program. But by the time you get to the part where you're actually having a call with me, you know, that you're going to buy for me because that's the point of the call, right? There's no pulling the wool over anybody's eyes. We're not, you know, I'm not trying to bait and switch anybody. If you've looked at everything that I'm doing at this point, you're ready to talk to me about what the next steps are. And so what I found really interesting about this program was that number one, they weren't selling what they said they were selling.
And that sort of started me on this journey of like, wait, now there's a huge gap here where people are talking about online courses as a way to scale your business, but nobody's actually teaching you how to build that online course. Right. So that was the first thing. The second thing was that the marketing piece is getting more attention than what's actually in that course. You know? So if you spend all your time trying to fill your cold funnel with warm leads, when do you have time to deliver what you said you were going to deliver, right? And because we're so focused right now on, you gotta be online, you gotta be seen, you gotta be big or go home. Um, I think we're really as entrepreneurs getting in this frame of mind where all of our time, energy and money should go into filling that funnel because it's a numbers game because we think we're competing against each other all the time for this limited attention span that humans have, what I'm arguing and what I'm seeing the results of is that when you build a course, that is as good as you think it is.
There is no selling involved, right? And when you offer something that people really need, and what people really need is transformation of some kind, right. We want to have solutions to our problems when you're doing that. It becomes a no brainer for people to go. Yep. I'm going to buy that. I want that. Right. And I think the thing about online courses that we, you get a bad rap. If you run an online course, first of all, is that people automatically assume you're just trying not to work. Right. You're trying to do something that is scalable. And that is repeatable, you know, and lather, rinse, repeat doesn't mean you don't have to work. I don't know if you've done any laundry, Roy, but it's a lot of work to ladder, right? It's a lot of work. It's no, for people to assume that, Oh, you have an online course.
It's because you're trying to scale. And you're trying not to work. These systems can be gold. Mines, miners work really hard. And so I'm trying to be really Frank with people about what you're getting into when you're, when you're making the change from a service-based business or even a product based business into the online space, because it's not a free for all. And you don't just get to hit play on that funnel and walk away from it. It's a lot of work. Right. But if you build it once it's done, right. And I think what people are getting hung up on and where I'm working really hard to help people is just that when you know what has to be done, you can get it done. Right? How many times in your life where I have you seen something and you're trying to figure out what the next step is, and you waste weeks and months trying to figure it out.
But as soon as you know, you take a step. Right, right, right. So there's my cats, my cats coming to visit. And so, yeah. So I think right now, um, and I'm a life coach as well, but what I'm not doing right now is coaching people. I'm not saying, how are you doing today, Roy? Because how you're doing is almost irrelevant to getting this stiff, this stuff done. Because if you can get this done, how you're doing will improve that. Right. You're you're like, I know how you're doing. If you're coming to work with me, I know where you're at. I know how frustrated you are. I'm not going to life, coach the crap out of you to try to get you to feel better. You're going to feel better once we get this done. And I think what we need more than ever right now as entrepreneurs is we just need systems.
We need accountability to ourselves and to each other to make, make sure our economy keeps going, right. We're all looking at the government to fix everything for us, but the government's not going to fix everything for us. Entrepreneurs show up when we fix things, that's literally what we do. Right? We are solution masters, right? And so I think this idea of accountability systems and speed is what we need more than ever, because the faster we can move, the faster we can figure out what's not working. And then the faster we can fix those problems. Right. And that's what I think online courses to do for people is it becomes a data hub, right? If you've got 10 or 15 people going through your online course, your only work around that is to show up and help them as they need it. And then to collect that data about, well, what didn't work, where did they need extra help? So it is man, like you have to show up and do it. Yeah. Um, but I think there's a lot of misunderstanding around who you are if you're offering this kind of thing and that you're trying to skirt around the work, but online course creators are some of the hardest workers I know because they're building an ecosystem, right?
Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Learn How To Create A Successful Online Course in Just 30 Days (00:23:38):
Yeah. I mean, you have to put in the work and that's, I think that's something to be Frank about with people is that this isn't going to be a few words on a couple of PowerPoint slides and you're done. Right. And so, and number two, I think that's where you come in as a benefit, not only setting up the structure, but also the, um, the content, because you're a writer, you know, we, I am not a rider. And so, um, you know, that's where we first met each other because I know I'm not a rider. So I seek help to like, um, those words that pull people in that engaged that keep them engaged. You know, we have to be sure and put it in, in a, and I guess, depending on our product, you know, a lot of times we, as business, people think we know exactly what people need.
Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Learn How To Create A Successful Online Course in Just 30 Days (00:24:27):
So, um, I can only assume that we can build this class and then, um, our training, whatever we build we'll build it. But then if the users come back and have, if five people come back and ask you the same question that you didn't address, then we kind of have to tweak that. And then as, as we grow, as our products grow, as our services change and grow, you know, there's always room to update that, you know, updated as we go forward. It's not a same stress as building it for sure. But you know, it's not a, I don't think it's a set it and forget it. I think, you know, we have to be there to be in tune because people need something from us. Even if we have this course, that's not going to be the end of the line.
Yeah. Yeah. And I think, you know, it's really important that people understand that it's yeah. It's not set it and forget it. Um, but yeah, I'd like to tell you a little bit about the system that I've created, because it will directly, it'll directly answer that question, um, that you're, you're sort of putting out there. Um, so you're absolutely right. That if somebody comes back to you and they've got a question and that keeps happening over and over again, then yeah. That is a ball. Quite frankly, that you've dropped. You've missed that piece of information. Now, what I see happen is new course creators. When that happens, they go, Oh, well, I guess I'm not cut out for this. And then all of a sudden, their course isn't available anymore and they run and hide and they have imposter syndrome. That's where the life coach and me lights up go, what are you doing?
Get back here. Let's fix it. Right. Right. Um, and so what I did is first and foremost, I think it's really clear to, you have to be really clear about what the difference is between an instructional designer and a course creator. Okay. So I have a master's degree in adult education. I studied this for years in school, at the post-secondary level, I've been creating online courses since 2008. I've been creating courses. In-person workshops in college curriculum since 2000. So I've been doing this for 20 actual years. I'm an instructional designer. That is my subject matter expertise. Roy, for you, your subject matter expertise is in business. In marketing, in senior living in sales, you have a S you have a container of subject matter expertise, right? As a course creator, your only job is to take your subject matter expertise and plug the holes for your clients.
Now, what holes are they? That's where I come in as an instructional designer, I help you see where are the gaps for your clients? I don't take your work and plug those holes. I take your expertise and put it into my framework and show you how to plug those holes for your customers. So that when you roll out your course, there are no questions. Right? And let me tell you how I do that, where you go to a marketing strategy. So with using a marketing strategy, what's the first rule of business, do your market research, right? Go and talk to your potential customers, right? This is true in instructional design. If I have no, I have no subject matter expertise in what your wanting to sell. I don't need it to be able to create a course for you. I go out to your market.
I ask them what they need. You and I sit down together and I pulled from your brain. What is going to plug those holes for those people then? Because I know how to build a course. I put it into a format into a framework that teaches them part one, part two part three, until incrementally. They get to the transformation that they're looking for. Very, very simple, very simple framework. Why people get overwhelmed is because they think about how do I go from, this is what I have to teach to. Here's a fully finished functional online course, everything in between turns to mud. And they get stuck in those ruts. Right. Happens all the time. So what I did is I looked at how do you find out about that niche marketing about that target marketing and how do you apply that to learning? And it's the same systems.
If you're creating a course for somebody you do, what's called a needs assessment. Right. Okay. The other thing I tried really hard to do is to leave all jargon at the door. When people take my program, you're not going to hear a single word of jargon because you don't need to be an instructional designer to create an online course. What you need is a framework to drop your knowledge into that becomes a course, right? So what I did is I bought from the marketing industry and I bore them from the instructional design industry. And I looked at what makes this easy for people to not feel intimidated by, because what I want people to remember is that, you know what, you know, better than I ever could. And you know what, you know, better than most people who are Hocking, what you're also trying to Hawk, right?
Whatever it is you're trying to sell. There are 10 other people, not nearly as qualified as you who are doing that out there. And you have to find where the pillar is that you're going to stand and how you're going to do that. So I help you figure that out with the course. And I walk you through this course, it's a four step system, right? That you walk through. But the first whole week that you work with me, we talk about this market research. And how do you pull that data so that you actually create a course, number one, that people want, number two, that they finished. Remember we talked about how people don't finish these courses, right? And the way that they finish them is that you focus on one or two very specific problems. You don't need to teach them everything that, you know, they don't want to know that.
Anyway, they want to know the answer to a question they have, and they want to be shown how to do it. They want systems and they want speed, right? Entrepreneurs are busy, do not make courses that are a year long. Nobody will buy them and you will lose. You'll lose them at six months every time. So you have to look at the needs and the wants of people. And then you look at what do I have to fill those needs and wants. And when you do that, when you weigh that marketing framework over it, and you put it into an instructional design framework, you get a course that people go, this is exactly what I need. And it, there, there is no sales funnel when you're selling exactly what people need, you know? And so I think it's really interesting because we tend to think that it's an experts.
You know, you're an expert in what you do. I'm an expert in what I do, but experts tend to hold things close to their chest because they want to be seen as someone who knows more than anyone else. I think an expert is someone who goes, you have a problem. Here's how you can fix it. Right. And that doesn't mean that I'm out there trying to make a hundred mini MES. I don't need a hundred more people that are there to understand instructional design. In fact, I'm trying to do the opposite. I'm trying to just get you to do the thing you're trying to do without needing to learn an entire other industry. I think that is what makes someone an expert when you can push people over the hump without weighing them down with a bunch of baggage. Right? And so the thing is that it, it, when you create an online course and you said it earlier, and I'm so glad you said it, you think about what you want to put into it.
And so many people create these courses in seclusion, and they're afraid of, you know, once you hit published, like, well, the whole world is going to judge it. That's not very fun because then they're going to start to see the cracks. They're going to see where you didn't answer that question, or you missed a staff or whatever. Um, but that's why when you only focus on one or two very small things, it's very easy to drill down into those things. Right. And nobody said you couldn't have 10 or 15 courses to solve 10 or 15 bucks.
Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Learn How To Create A Successful Online Course in Just 30 Days (00:31:54):
That's why I was just thinking, you know, our attention spans are so small that instead of trying to cover everything of one major subject, break it down and cover, you know, one or two points like you're saying, and put 10 of these instructional videos out there.
Yeah. Yeah. And then the other thing that I'm seeing right now, because it's the holidays and we all love to just give stuff away at the holidays is a real under, at, at one point at one end of the spectrum, we're overselling like crazy. And what I mean by that is we're over promising. What's actually happening inside the course, right? At the other end of that spectrum, we're giving it away for pennies because we're afraid it's not really worth what we say it's worth. Right? And so I'm seeing a lot of people and it happens around the holidays, but it does happen all long to where my course was a thousand dollars. And today it's 97 bucks. You will never forget that today it's worth 97 bucks when tomorrow it's a thousand dollars. Again, you'll never pay me that thousand dollars. Right. You could have gotten it for $97 today.
Right. And people think like, Oh, that's great. I'll just, I'll make up for it in volume. But what you're doing as a course creator is you're saying to people out loud, what's in this course is not worth more than $97 right now, if you're selling a course at 97 bucks, that's great. Make it 97 bucks. Don't make it 49. Don't put it on sale because knowledge is not for sale, right? It's not something that you can, you can just sell. It's acquired, right? You, you have to decide to engage in that. And what I want people to know is that digital courses, online courses are not products. We're not selling products here. They are simply vehicles. It's a container. It could just as easily have been an e-book. It could just as easily have been an in-person workshop. It could just as easily have been 10 social media posts where you're giving away everything.
Right. But it's the container. What people pay for is accountability systems and speed. The more accountable you can make your people, the better systems you can give them. And the faster you can get them there, the more money they're willing to pay. But if you slash it with a big red marker and say, it's on sale today, then all of a sudden, my trust for you goes down because well, yesterday it was a thousand bucks. Is it not worth a thousand bucks anymore? Right. But we're desperate right now. Right. People are desperate. They're just trying to make a buck. And what's the fastest way to make a buck. What things on sale, right. Except everyone is left with kind of a bad taste in the middle of afterwards, because you got to put that price back up eventually. And then we're all just waiting for your next sale.
Speaker 3 (00:34:33):
Or I was the guy that paid a thousand dollars yesterday. It's the worst. That's the worst thing.
Well, podcasts about this, myself, about how, one of the reasons I don't do discounts anymore. And for a long time in my business, I had this value system where I was like, I'm not discounting anything. Right. Uh, and that was a lot of stubborn pride. And the more I learned about business, the more I realized that there is a time and a place for that. Right. However, I think there's, you know, in good conscience, I can't sell you what I'm selling you today at full price. If I know that thing is going on sale tomorrow, right. Because I'm not Walmart, right. Like it's not buyer beware when you're buying from people and we have companies, but we're people. And, and I think that that's really, really important. And I think there's a lot of that happening right now. I just saw someone posts on social media.
Uh, yeah. It was 1,097 bucks and it was slashed to $97. Wow. And then I saw another one that was a thousand. I think it was also $1,097. There must be some psychology around that price. Um, it's not too much, not too little or something, but 97 bucks seems to be the thing. Yeah. So it was $1,097 and it was, she was selling this thing for $1. Wow. $1. So basically what she was doing was baking, you pay a dollar to get on her email list, right. Yeah. Right. So like that's genius. Uh, but I would be wild if I had bought that same product for $1,097. Like you say exactly. Yeah. Yeah. We, we,
Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Learn How To Create A Successful Online Course in Just 30 Days (00:36:11):
Instead of focusing it, well, my, my opinion and what I talked to a lot of my clients about is instead of focusing on discounting, because you'll never get out of that. And, and we need to focus on the value proposition. I mean, if, like you said earlier, if there's a thousand dollars worth of value there, then it's worth a thousand. If there's only $97 worth of value, then that's where it needs to be. You know, we have to decide that upfront, but let's focus on the value in what we're giving. If it's worth it, you know what we're giving people it's worth that amount of money. And, uh, because it sometimes also too is like, you know, people just want to beat you down over price that will not make, you know, if you have other services that you're gonna try to get with them, then they're going to want to beat you down on that. It's an endless cycle. So I'm like you, I mean, there are reasons why we've got bulk bulk or, you know, somebody engage you for 10, 10 different products, you know? Yeah. There is a time for that, but just one off, somebody want to, you know, take advantage of you beat you down over that. I'm totally against that.
Yeah. Yeah. And it's interesting, like I did this year, I very purposely, I didn't do a black Friday sale and I watched the conversations online from small business owners, like solo preneurs, and I'm a solopreneur. It's just me. I run my entire company and I watched people have these conversations around the pressure they felt to discount, right. So there's the pressure to discount, but then there's also the social conformity of this is a thing every business does in North America. I don't know if they do it in Europe, but in North America, this is the thing we do. Um, and so I made a very conscious decision not to discount my prices for black Friday. What I did instead was I partnered with an organization who has a very specific pool of people who are my exact target market. And I offered them an exclusive code to get, I think I give them 500 bucks.
I gave them $500 off my program, but the only way you could get that was if you were in that exclusive pool of people, it wasn't a sale. It was a partnership. Right? So in exchange, in exchange for that, and I'll tell you, I did that in a minute in exchange for that. I was featured in their gift guide in, I live in Atlanta, Canada. Uh, we're pretty small. And Atlanta, Canada, we don't have a lot of stuff going on here. But what we do have is plenty of very talented entrepreneurs. And this woman that I know in my network reached out and said, Hey, do you want to do a contribution? And I said, yes, I gave away one seat. My program is valued at $2,000. I gave away one seat in my program as a prize for any entrepreneur who wanted to, to do the draw, to, to be able to create an online course.
And then I gave discount codes for, I think it was up to 50 of their people and they have a huge network in Atlanta, Canada. And the reason I did that was because I was going to take money out of my pocket to buy Facebook ads. And I'm going to be real Frank with ya. I hate Facebook ads. And this year Facebook ads have just been like robbing pockets of people. It's a great tool. If you can figure out how to use it, but it costs you thousands of dollars to figure out how to use it. Right. So I said, I don't want to do a black Friday sale, but I do want to do some Facebook ads except I hate Facebook ads. So when I was approached by this girl, I said, you know what, the money I was going to spend on doing those ads, if I got one or two people to sign up for my program at the discounted price, that would have been better than doing Facebook ads.
And so I shifted my focus away from spending $500 on Facebook ads to trading basically a giant network of advertising. For which realistically let's be honest, it was going to be one or two seats. It wasn't going to be 50, 50. People were not going to sign up for my program. But when you do Facebook ads or when you do those kinds of funnel selling things, you have to set metrics, right? You have to know what does success look like? And so for me, it was, well, if I spent $500 and I got one person to buy a $2,000 program, that's a pretty good success metric. So instead of doing that, I kept my 500 bucks and I gave them a bunch of discount codes. And so far nobody has purchased, but one of the reasons why it worked out really well was that that became a national thing.
It was sent all over Canada and all over North America. And you guys have, uh, in the States, you guys have a show called shark tank. Yes. So in Canada, our, our version of that is called Dragon's den. And one of the dragons picked up this gift guide. And so one of these women, who's on TV here, Arlene Dickinson is her name. She owns a huge venture communication and capital company in Western Alberta. Uh, she picked up the gift guide and she sent it out to her million people network. And then all of a sudden, a million people knew about me. Right. And it costs me nothing. And I remember thinking like, this is like gorilla marketing at its finest, really, you know, like just get out there, pound the pavement, do what you can to be seen and be heard, but be very careful about spending money for vanity metrics.
You know? So it was interesting because you have to set those metrics. You have to think about as a course creator, but also as a trainer myself, I need to think about what is the best way to let people know about me. And then what's going to happen is people are going to mimic what I'm doing, right. Because they've seen how I sold my course. They want to sell their course in the same way. And so it cost me no money and I got national reach international reach because then we get into the United States with it as well. Um, and sometimes being seen is worth more than making a sale. That sale only happens once. Right. You know, but that gift guide, this Atlanta Canadian gift guide, there's things, there's 30 of us, it's 30 women in this gift guide. Um, the reach of that now is exponential and it will live on for a while like that.
Um, but I think there's a real pressure for people to, to not look at something like that and see the value in that and throw the $500 on Facebook to get a couple of more likes to get one or two more sales. Right. But those sales, you know, they're so important, obviously money is the lifeblood of your business. Um, but if you can't get outside of a hundred kilometers of where you sell your, it's not your you're going to run dry, you know, and that's important. That's why an online course can help. So many people is automatically without even thinking you get outside of where you live and you can help virtually anyone, you know, whether or not you should is another story for another day. Yeah, yeah.
Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Learn How To Create A Successful Online Course in Just 30 Days (00:42:57):
Yeah. And I, and you know, kind of off topic a little bit, but I thank you, you know, that situation just reaffirms that, you know, we have to stay out there. We have to stay active. We have to look for those different things because just like yourself, I mean, look what that one opportunity turned into. I mean, that's amazing that's, but if you hadn't been out there hustling and doing it would have never happened. So I, you know, sometimes people, uh, you know, we kind of ebb and flow on those marketing efforts on what things that we're trying to do. And so there, uh, you know, every, everything that's good for us does not have to be paid. There are a lot of things that we can do just, um, you know, networking, helping other people out that ends up helping us tremendously.
Yeah. Oh my God. Yes. And it's um, can I tell you a little story? Sure. Okay. This is so on point with what you're saying. So two years ago, um, and I think it's been maybe even two years since you and I have spoken, but, uh, two years ago, I, again, I live in Atlanta, Canada. There's not a whole lot going on here on a good day. Uh, I love it with all my heart. I would never live anywhere else, but we are economically challenged to say the least, okay. So two years ago, a friend of mine and I, around this time of year, we were talking about, we wanted to go to a women in business conference. The last women in business conference that was held in my area was in 2015 and I was at it. And I remember thinking like, God, this is amazing.
This is so great. There hadn't been one in almost five years at this point. So, uh, my friend and I, well, if there's no court, no conference to go to let let's just hold a conference, let's create one. And so one of the very first things we said, cause we were, we were kind of half joking. You know, you say things. And especially when you're, you're bantering with, with colleagues and business partners, you kind of say things. And then most of those ideas fizzle out, uh, except we're doers her. And I, we will just get things done, especially if there's a hole to fail. If there's a gap somewhere, we'll just show up and do it. And so we joked about what if a net for Shuren could be our keynote speaker. And for those of you who don't know who know for sure it is, she was the CEO of home Depot, Asia, and then became the CEO of home Depot, Canada.
And then was, was the leading, um, uh, investor in the Michael's arts and craft store in Canada. So she brought this chemistry. She's kind of a big deal. Uh she's from 20 minutes from where I live and she's an international business woman sensation. She's incredible. She's an author, so many, so many amazing things. Anyway, she lived she's from 20 minutes from where I live. I don't know her from a hole in the wall. She certainly doesn't know me, but we were kind of joking. Like, wouldn't it be fun if we could get this woman to come and be our keynote speaker to our non-existent, we're probably joking conference. So you say something, you put it out into the world, right? This is why to your point, networking is so, so important. So one of the things I wanted to do in late 2018 going into 2019 was that I wanted to get out in my, my community.
I wanted to sell in my own community even more. And I was still freelancing at the time. And I saw on Facebook, uh, this girl who I did not know, but was in my community of entrepreneurs, who said, I'm doing surveys with entrepreneurs, women, entrepreneurs in the community for a report that's being written, looking for people to take the survey. So I wrote her and said, Hey, yeah, because I was checking my own box. Right. I was like, Oh, this is the thing I want to do. I want to get out into my community more. I'm going to reach out to where I'll take the survey. So I did the survey with her and I got to chatting with her and she was lovely. And I said, Oh, and by the way, I'm doing this women's conference because there's nothing like this happening here. And she said, Oh, we are actually doing something that same weekend.
And we were doing it on in March. It was for international women's day in March. And she said, we're doing something that same weekend. And I said, what are the odds that we went from? There's nothing for women on this day to, there are two events. Anyway, it turned out that there ended up being like five events that day. But our event was certainly, it was the biggest one and we, it was amazing. But anyway, she says to me, um, we should probably work together on this so that we're not stepping on each other's toes, which was totally classy. And I could not thank her enough for doing that because of course, your first thought is, Oh my God, everyone's going to go to her event by event. Right? Like just the pettiness and the claws come out. So anyway, I was like, okay, thank you for doing that.
So she invited me to this condo, uh, that was not hers that was owned by an F for Sharon, the CEO of home Depot, the woman who brought Michael's to Canada, Michael's arts and crafts to Canada. Uh, because it turned out that that survey that I had taken was being orchestrated by a group of women that a net for sure, and had orchestrated to take this survey so she could invest money in the community to help women entrepreneurs. And so one phone call, one survey, one conversation led to me sitting in her living room, talking to her sister because she lives in Toronto. Um, her sister was there and her sister, Dorothy is lovely. And they loved me and her sister, Dorothy said, I'll get a net to go there. So she called up an F for me, and I never had to speak to her.
She called up a net and said, Heather's this girl and her friend, Wendy are doing this thing in Cape Breton in Nova Scotia. You've got to come, please come and speak for these girls. So we had a hundred people in the room and we got $20,000 worth of sponsorship. We had, Oh, it was crazy. We did it in 56 days. Okay. From idea we showed, we did it in 56 days. That's amazing. The icing on the cake was a net flew in. We have a very small airport, like two terminal airport here. Like not even terminal gate to gate airport. She flew in at three o'clock. She come over to our event and spoke for one hour, talk to everybody and then go back on a plane and left and charged us nothing. She she's like a 20, 30, $40,000 keynote speaker. He, you have to pay for her to come.
And she said, these women in Cape Breton need my help. It's near dear to rehearse. Nobody else was doing it. She came and she helped us. So anyway, uh, and I'm lying a little bit there. She didn't get back on the airplane. She actually then invited us. She was going to do other things that day. Um, she, it was her event. The other event that weekend was her event. And she invited us to be guests of her event. And so I got to hang out with her all weekend. I got to have a beer with her and the F like the repercussions, the like waves of opportunity that came from that one phone call to this day. I now have a network of 700. I can't even believe there are 700 women entrepreneurs in my little Island. There's like a hundred thousand people that live here.
And 700 of them are in this Facebook group, all running businesses. Anytime you need anything, anytime you have an idea, these women just come together and they do all this stuff. And it's so important for people to not just golf at things and say, it's not worth my time if I'm not being paid right. Or, you know, to help somebody out. Like, I have lots of friends who were starting podcasts and I've been podcasting for years and I'm like, Oh my God, I'll be on your podcast. And then I'll interview you and we'll talk about all your stuff. And it's, you know, you got to scratch people's backs a little bit. And yeah. And I think sort of bringing this back to the course piece of it, is that just because you create a course, doesn't mean you don't have to be out there going, Hey, look, I have this thing, you know, it's, there is such a sense that it's one and done, and then you can go to sleep and wake up with a bank full of money.
And I've had people say this to me, you know, like, Oh, you must be so nice. You don't have to work. I'm like, Oh my God, what? I work more now than ever this isn't, this is a baby in the world. Like you do, you know how much it like, it's a lot. Right. But it's, it's so interesting because I think right now there's a real sense of, you need to just spit things on the internet and then react. And it's conversations like this, Roy and it's conversations like I had with that girl, whose name was Jill, who she actually ended up starting as our very first cidery. We have a cidery now, because this woman thought the red tape for two years to build it. You know, like people are amazing when you talk to them and the reach that you get when you talk to people, it's incredible. And I think now more than ever, um, selling is, is it really is relationships. It really is. You know, people who say, Oh, it's who, you know, like you're, you're frigging, right? It is. Yeah.
Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Learn How To Create A Successful Online Course in Just 30 Days (00:51:36):
I think that's a two-fold message to take away is not only, you know, we need to keep pushing and pushing, but we also need to think about giving back without expecting something, because you know, this one visit, okay, how many lives that she touched and the changes that have, you know, will take place for a long time to come. It's not just a, just what happened at that point in time. But this will, that will be an event that will have ripple effects for years to come. So that's yeah.
And, and it's amazing because you know, when you're the orchestrator of that, when you're someone who like made that kind of thing happen, people look at you like, Oh my God, that you must be a special flower. And you're, it's not that you're a special flour. It's you picked up the phone and asked a question, you know, or you asked for help. And I think so many times entrepreneurs and business owners don't succeed because we make the mistake. And I'm saying, we, because this has certainly been true of me. I think we make the mistake of thinking. We should, we should know this. We should like what you're trying to build an online course, and it's not working it's because you don't know how to do it. So why are you sitting there telling yourself, you should know how to do it if you don't know how to do it. But I think we do that a lot. Right? Our marketing's not working well, I'm just doing what everyone else is doing. Well, that's probably why it's not working. Like it's we get, we trick ourselves a little bit into thinking this should be easier than it is, right.
Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Learn How To Create A Successful Online Course in Just 30 Days (00:53:06):
No, I agree with that. So, uh, tell this as quickly, uh, before we wrap up. Um, so I pick up the phone, I call Heather and say, Hey, got an idea. Can you just kind of hit the high spots of, you know, kind of how this process and I know product services, everything is a variable, but you know, just on a very generic level, what does that process look from the time that we can't make contact?
Yeah. That's a great question. Thanks for asking. Right. It's actually, it's a very simple process. So by the time you've spoken to me, you have probably been thinking about grading your course for some time, I bet you 10 bucks. You've kicked your can a couple of times trying to do it. There's a level of frustration there. You've hit some, a point where you don't know what the next step is. So anyone I'm working with has already tried this or has been thinking about this for some time. Um, I work with established entrepreneurs. So this isn't startup. Uh, one of the things that I think people are making a big mistake with right now is they're dropping what they're doing. And they're going in a totally new direction. Not having an experience in that direction in order to be a really successful course creator, you got to know what you're teaching, right?
Right. So if a course is your first product, I'm not your first call. You need to have a business to support the infrastructure of that online course. Okay. Um, so we will have a conversation around where are you at in your business? Where do you see the course helping you accomplish? Why do you want to create it? When you come into the program with me, it's a four week program. So my program is actually called create your online course in 30 days flat. And the reason I can promise you 30 days flat is because I'm not teaching you entrepreneurship, not teaching you sales. I'm not even teaching you marketing. I'm teaching you one simple thing, how to take your expertise and put it into an online course. So I'm telling, I'm helping you build the container. How many people you build the vehicle. Okay. So the first week is building the groundwork.
That's all the market research. That's interviewing potential students. That's figuring out what you're going to teach, why you're going to teach it and how you're going to teach it. At the end of week one, we have a, we have a functional working course outline. So you know what you're going to create week two is creating something. I call a tech space. And so that's all the material in your head. And in your experience, this is one of the key points that people get hung up on is where do you start getting all those ideas out of your head and onto the papers. So that's week two. At the end of week two, you have pages and pages and pages of the solutions you're going to provide for your students. Okay? Week three is when you take all those solutions and you record videos, you create workbooks, you develop the layout of the course.
What would it look like if you were going to deliver it in person, we break it down that way first and then week four. So on days 21 to day 29 or 30, rather. So it's like an eight day week at the last week, just because you need time for uploading and recording. The last week is called the upload. And that's where I teach you how to use a learning management system, one learning management system. I don't give you a choice. The whole process is about eliminating choices. You need answers. I can give you answers and move on to the next thing. So I teach you how to use a learning management system and teach you how to set up a sales page. I teach you how to set up your payment gateway at the end of 30 days. If you've gone through the program, if you've gotten up on day one and did one, two, and three things, you got up on day five, and you did one, two and three things at the of 30 days, you have a fully finished, ready to sell online course there.
The caveat is, and I'm very clear about this. The caveat is you can do this in 30 days, and I encourage you to do it in 30 days, but it's up to you. Whether those 30 days are in a row because everybody's got you're a business owner, right? So how it works is you get 90 days access, but you will only have to work for 30 days to great. This course. Now some people have done it in 30 days. I have two people selling courses right now. I have two more people coming through they're finishing this week. So they will have their courses up of the people who've gone through the program. I would say half the people have done it in 30 days straight, and the other half are picking at it a day here a day there. Yeah. Calendar days wise. And I think that's really important because I don't want to pull the wool over anybody's eyes.
You can do it on January 1st to January 30th, or you could spend every three days for three months working on it. Okay. What the program comes with is four weeks of coaching. And the reason I do that is because after the first four weeks, you're not going to need me for very much after that. It's the first four or three weeks, rather the first three weeks of material where people get hung up, the last part is just execution. And so that's it. So it's very simple, very simple delivery, very simple framework. And the onus is really on you to do the work. However, one of my other pet peeves is one of the things I, I never want to say to people is, you know, well, if you did the work, it would be done. I don't, I hate that. That's a life poaching thing. I personal development.
You know, if you just journaled more, you'd be happier. Well, okay, fine. But this journaling isn't making me happy. Um, so I went with results-based training, which means that every day, and I worked really hard to make sure that people didn't feel overwhelmed. The content is dripped and it's on demand. So you can do the work as you want to go. Uh, but one of the things I did, I, that is proving to be very effective for people is I'm only asking you to do one or two things a day, which only requires you to spend an hour to two hours max, every day, working on this, right. It, because it's designed for already established business owners who don't have enough time to have lunch. It had to be accessible that way. Right now, the way that I promise 30 days is you're not teaching everything, you know, right. You're creating a course that focuses on one or two problems. We're creating five, six modules at the most. We are not creating year long courses together. We're doing six to 12 week long courses, which is all people can handle anyway. Um, so there's, there's a lot built into it so that you don't fail.
Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Learn How To Create A Successful Online Course in Just 30 Days (00:59:00):
Okay. That's awesome. Yeah. I think that's great to break it down in those bite sized nuggets, because like you said, there, people are running their business, so that's awesome. That's great. Yeah. Yeah. So what is a tool that you use in your daily life? It can be professional personal, but a tool, a habit of ritual. So what's something that you do you couldn't do without
Something I couldn't do without do you know, I I'm a doer, so I need a task list all the time. And I actually, I have a system that I use, but it's not just one system. I have a system for my social media that I use paper to record my social media, what I'm going to do on that day. And then I use my Google calendar to facilitate time-blocking and it's not sexy and it's not even functional for a lot of people, but being able to see there's one place where my appointments live. And I would say more specifically to answer your question, it's the reminders on Google calendar. If I'm being honest, it goes, Hey, you got a phone call where Rory in five minutes. Oh yeah. Right. Okay. Great. Like it's that stuff, right? Yeah. Um, but yeah, I think, I think the, I think tools are only as effective as the uses that you have for that.
Right. And I have lived and died by my Google calendar since 2017 when I started my business, because if it's written down, it's going to get done and I've modeled my own program after that in a calendar format, if it's written down and you'd show up and you do this today, it's going to get done. Um, and so I think that's probably the biggest thing for me. Um, but I'll just tell you a little trick that I started doing in the winter when I was feeling really overwhelmed with COVID-19 and everything. Um, because when you're, when you're faced with obstacles and change, you're not really sure what direction to go in and you don't really want to focus on. And so one of the things I started doing was reverse engineering, my to-do list. So instead of starting the day with a list of things, I thought I should work on, as I worked on things, I wrote down what I had done. And so at the end of the day, I would have, you know, four or five things on a list instead of a list with four or five things that didn't get done. Right. Right. And, and that was, that's something, that's a tool I pull out every now and then it's, uh, it's just a strategy for making you feel more productive than you are.
Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Learn How To Create A Successful Online Course in Just 30 Days (01:01:31):
And I think that's a good point because, um, you know, I have a habit, I'm a list list person myself. So I've got my list and I think we all have the habit of beating ourselves up at the end of the day. Cause I left three things on there. What we don't do is we don't celebrate the seven that we took care of. And if we prioritize typically they are the, probably the most important seven that we had. So we need to celebrate that at the end of the day, like got this done instead of just beating herself up about what was left over.
Yeah. Yeah. Cause if you're anything like me and everyone else on the planet, all of the stuff that was left over was the hard stuff. Right. That push to the bottom for a reason.
Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Learn How To Create A Successful Online Course in Just 30 Days (01:02:16):
Well, Heather tell everybody how, uh, number one, they can reach out, get a hold of you are how they can sign up for the, uh, online training.
Yeah, thanks. Right. So my website is Heather deveaux.com. Um, I'll just spell it for you. It's H E a T H E R D E V E a U x.com. Um, and when you visit there, you'll see that there is a bunch of stuff. Um, but the most important tab is the created online course tab where you'll learn all about my program called think big, moved fast, great. Your online course in 30 days slash and people can find me on Instagram, just Heather Deveaux and I'm on Facebook as think big move fast as well.
Roy - The Business of Business Podcast - Learn How To Create A Successful Online Course in Just 30 Days (01:02:54):
Awesome. So y'all reach out to Heather. Let's get that online course. Let's get started and start the new year off, fresh with that. Heather, thanks so much for taking time out of your day to speak with us. We certainly do appreciate it and we'll be Vista and soon kind of catch up again. And this is such an in-depth, uh, subject. I'm sure we can have three or four conversations, but thanks a lot for being here. Appreciate you listening again. This is a, the business of business podcast. You can find us at www dot the business of business podcast. We're on all the major platforms, iTunes, Google play, Stitcher, Spotify. Uh, I saw that even a heart radio. We got put on there yesterday. So if we're not on a platform that you use, let me know. I'll be sure. And get us added to that. You can also find us Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and YouTube, this, uh, the, uh, recorded video. This will be put up as well again until next time everybody take care of yourself.