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The Business of Business Podcast

May 31, 2021

Entrepreneurs Need Infrastructure and Strategies to Grow Successfully with Ann Holm

There are many things we need as entrepreneurs. These include mental fitness, a good mindset, self-awareness, and a good strategy. The idea of mental fitness is resilience and positive intelligence. The idea of strategy is to have the necessary infrastructure in place in order to allow for ease of growth and a higher percentage of success.

About Ann

Ann has been in the people development business since 1984. Currently, she is a Professional Certified Coach, specializing in executive, and organizational development coaching. Ann is a certified Master Practitioner of the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator and a world expert on how to use type effectively for personal and team development.

Ann is also a skilled mental fitness coach.  Just like physical fitness, you can deliberately build focus and resilience to help you reach your goals. The stronger your mental muscle, the more likely you are to hold onto your gains over time. Ann uses Positive Intelligence which is an up and coming framework to achieve mental resilience.

Prior to coaching, Ann had 25 years of experience in Applied Brain Science, and she also use this hands-on experiences to help her clients understand how to stay focused, be engaged, and energized given the demands of the 21st century workplace.

Full Transcript Below

Entrepreneurs Need Infrastructure and Strategies to Grow Successfully with Ann Holm

Sat, 5/29 9:01AM • 38:54


people, business, assessment, self awareness, idea, delegate, mental, strengths, meatloaf, person, find, good, dynamic tension, life, book, talk, day, interpret, run, mental resilience


Ann, Roy Barker

Roy Barker  00:01

Hello, and welcome to another episode of the business of business podcast. I'm your host, Roy, we are the podcast that brings a lot of a wide variety of guests that are able to speak to a lot of diverse topics. We just want to give you something to think about. Sometimes we don't know what we don't know. But then also if you do know that is something that you're struggling with or need help, we want to give you some industry experts in order in which to reach out so without further avail. We're going to jump right in today. We have an awesome guest I've been waiting for this for we've kind of kick this can down the roads. I've been waiting for this interview for a long time Ann Holm. She has been in the people development business since 1994. Currently, she's a professional certified coach specializing in executive and organizational development coaching. She is a certified master practitioner of the Myers Briggs Type Indicator, and a world expert on how to use type effectively for personal and team development. She is also a scalar skill, and this is a good one I we're gonna go into this a little bit if she is also a skilled mental fitness coach. And just like physical fitness, you can deliberately build focus and resilience. To help you reach your goals. The stronger your mental muscle, the more likely you are to hold on to your gains over time, she uses positive intelligence, which is an up and coming framework to achieve mental resilience. Prior to coaching, she has 25 years of experience in applied brain science and use this hands on experience to help her clients understand how they stay can stay focused, be engaged and energized, given the demands of the 21st century workplace. Ann thanks so much for taking time out of your day to be with us. I certainly do appreciate it for sure.

Ann  01:56

Happy to be here. So I do. We've got other stuff to talk about. I did want to just touch on this mental fitness coach, I really liked that. And I think it's, you know, it's something that we all need to keep in mind is that we kind of have to keep our mind and I'm sure there are exercises and things we can do. But we have to exercise our mind in order to make it stronger. Yep. Yep, yep, absolutely. Yeah, the idea of mental fitness is one of resiliency. So we all go through life with various challenges and stretcher stressors. What I like to the term I like to use is dynamic tension. So anytime we encounter something that's stressful, I call that dynamic tension. And so you engage with that, and then that creates the, you know, the personal growth. But the idea of the mental fitness is, is if every day you practice making your mental muscle just a little bit stronger, when you actually encounter some of those challenges, you're able to meet them yeah, more readily. So it would be like saying, you know, you You're, you're lifting 20 pound weights at the gym. But if you encounter 100 pound problem, that might be a little bit of a challenge, right? So, you know, we want to continue to build our ability to handle the 100 pound problems. And in the meanwhile, it just makes those 20 pound problems a little bit easier. So goodness knows, we can all use that for sure.

Roy Barker  03:31

Yeah, yeah. It's a wonderful, it's a it's a very, very much everybody available to anybody, but you do have to work on it like you go to the gym. Yeah. All right, awesome. Well, actually, you know, the topic that we had talked about discussing the day is that entrepreneurial edge. And, you know, I think probably the best jumping off point is that big idea that people have sometimes that's just the beginning. And you know, one thing we talk a lot about this show, and I think the pandemic has amplified This is that sometimes people fall into work, either, you know, maybe they're a good plumber, they get out on their own or, you know, electrician in a trade, and then all of a sudden, they, you know, they're doing stuff on their own. And then they wake up one day, and they got five employees, and they're a business all of a sudden, or, you know, and I think what I've heard a lot with the pandemic are people being forced out. And so maybe they've picked up this side hustle, and all of a sudden, you know, it's turned into a little a nice going concern. And then it's like, oh, you know, sometimes success can lead you to the point of, Okay, now what? Where do we go from here? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well, and there's, there's a lot to think about in what you just talked about. So

Ann  04:47

the first thing I want to talk about is a lot of times when people have an idea and they're going to start a business or something like that, they kind of sketch it out on the back of a napkin, and if they have a collaborator or two, you know, they get a pizza in a couple of years, and they talk about it and things like that. And the what happens, though, as the business starts to grow, which is your greatest hope is your business is going to grow. A lot of times you haven't put the structures in place to support that growth. Right. So yeah, yeah. So you know, you could say, well, I, you know, I have a business, let's say, I've got a trucking business. And it's, you know, I have one or two trucks and a couple of drivers. And you know, Okay, good, we got this going on. But now all of a sudden, you've got 1020, whatever to track. And if you don't have strategies in place to take on that extra load, or whatever, that's when you can start to run into trouble. Yeah,

Roy Barker  05:51

yeah. And it's a it's counterintuitive, but sometimes success can be the beginning of the end for a lot of businesses, if they don't plan ahead and have those structures in place. It can be, you know, it can be almost as bad as not having any customers.

Ann  06:07

Yeah, yeah, very much. So. I don't know if you remember. Have you ever had this down in Dallas? Did you ever have a chain called Boston Market? Oh, yes.

Roy Barker  06:17


Ann  06:18

Okay. Yes. And you can see they don't exist anymore? Yeah, I haven't seen one in a long time. Yeah. And they were the classic case of the business that grew without the, you know, structural underpinnings to, you know, make it successful. on a large scale.

Roy Barker  06:37

Yeah. And it's funny, you bring them up, because, you know, it's been, Oh, my gosh, it's been 20 years ago, I had such a bad experience with them is, you know, there are people that Yeah, for people that don't know is that they had, like, at this time, they had like four entrees a day. I mean, it was like a meatloaf or a chicken or this. So, you know, after church one day we rolled in there, you know, it's like 130 in the afternoon, and Hey, could we, you know, the kids wanted this and that. And so I was like, well, we don't have any, or we've got meatloaf. So okay, well, we'll just take, you know, four meatloaf plates. So I'm sitting there watching a piece of meatloaf comes out of the back to the lady and she picks it up and takes it over to the window and hands it to the car. And then they promptly come and tell us I'm sorry, we're out of meatloaf. Okay.

Ann  07:26

Like, it's 130 in the afternoon, y'all only got four things to serve, and you're already out of everything, you're just gonna close anyway. It's just funny, you bring them up, because it was such a, it was such a crazy story that I just couldn't believe that they could stay in it. And obviously, they weren't able to sustain staying in business. Yeah, they just, yeah, they, it's the one that comes to my mind all the time when I think about you know, because I remember when they get started, like Ali, I go to boss Mart, you get chicken, and they get really good sides and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then, you know, then you'd see another one pop, and then another one pop up another, you know, franchise, or whoever they would open these stores, and my gosh, it just collapsed. And and that's what can happen when you're, you're successful, but you don't have the structures in place, you know, to support it. Yeah. And I think, you know, I don't want to jump ahead of ourself, maybe you're gonna mention this. But I think it's sometimes in these cases like that, when you grow so much. It's not only the physical infrastructure, the computers, the network, and all that. But sometimes we outgrow that people structure that we're not able to educate and bring people online where they can make these crucial decisions. And you know, I hate to pick on it, but let's just go back to my example is like, we're getting low meatloaf is noon on a Sunday, maybe we should just throw some more in the oven. I mean, that but there wasn't anybody, you know, that felt like they had that authority to make that decision. So anyway, I just want to bring up that, you know, sometimes that people element is an important part of the equation. It's It's so huge, it says it's as huge as any of those other structures. And in fact, being in the people development business. That's, that's the stuff I see all the time, which is, you know, you're getting bigger and bigger, but you don't have, you know, the leadership to to move people in the same direction, or to foresee what might need to be addressed or changed. You don't have the managerial protocols. I mean, it's just the bigger you are, the more you have to have your act together with your staff. Right. And what you know, what starts out on the back of a napkin, which is a great idea can often you know, end up, you know, just falling apart. Yeah, like a paper napkin. Yeah. And I look at some of these pitfalls we run into, because, you know, it's easy to lash out at the poor customer service girl who, you know, she just came in there to serve up some food today. She you know, she's not in charge of all these things. And so

Roy Barker  10:00

You know, the approach that I've kind of taken with some companies that I've worked for is, it's a total management breakdown, because people only know what we tell them, or they can only do what we allow them to do. So, if we're not training, if we're not giving people the correct authority, and trust, I mean, you know, to me back in unsolo, back in my day, you know, they were all small businesses, but it was the owner and a couple trusted people, and the trusted people they could make in just, you know, pretty much any decision, customer service was, but now we've grown to these huge organization, and it just seems like that, you know, that did not follow where we've given anybody the authority to make their customer happy.

Ann  10:47

That's absolutely, absolutely true. You know, and so, you see this a lot in multiple, you know, multiple businesses. And so it's something that as if an individual or, you know, a small business is expecting to grow, that they need to put that on their plate, the strategies of growth and the structures you're going to need, in order, you know, to to satisfy that growth. So

Roy Barker  11:19

you're having How do you feel about processes and procedures? Because there's two thoughts is some people like, well, we want to be loose and flexible, but I look at processes and procedures, not as, not as stop signs, but more of guard rails, you know, they kind of keep us between where we need to be. But we can still allow some flexibility. And that's something that I see a lot with people I work with, is that just, there's no documentation. So I mean, and knows that, you know, when you come in, you know exactly what you're supposed to do. But when you leave, and Judy comes in behind you, it's like, yeah, who knows what Ann was doing every day? You got the job done is not that you were you weren't doing it, but I don't know, what system do I need to log to? What report do I pull down. And so you know, to me, those are the things that it just takes a little time to have a flowchart and a process. And then the other thing, the other great thing about that is you take the time, typically, you will find gaps in this already to you know, either and can speak up and say, here's a trouble I have or, you know, you find that big hole. So kind of get your take on that.

Ann  12:31

Yeah, no, it's a matter of fact, you know, this is a great segue into what the entrepreneur edge assessment, which I use, will do, which is it will identify the places where you're likely to be very strong in your entrepreneurial adventure. So let's say you're really really good at your, you know, your people skills. So you, you know, you're good at communication, and coaching your, your, your employees and things like that, let's just say that for an example. But you're short on paying attention to things like details, you know, the procedures that you were speaking about, you know, how do you let the next person know, what is expected of them as they take over for you, for instance. And so, you know, when you do have something like an entrepreneurial edge, you can start to fess out what it is that you are, is going to be a natural strength for you. And what it is that you might not pay a lot of attention to. And the thing is, you can go along for a little while with just you know, leveraging your strengths. But at some point, you've got to address the stuff that you kind of, you know, you're a little blind to right. And, and so that's what this does. And it'll also help a person develop some specific activities where they can develop those skills. So you don't, you don't ever want to look at any of the things that you're doing and say, you know, oh, you know, I'm just not good at details, so that, you know, I'm doomed. But you can work on that and understand how important it is to your business. Yeah. Yeah. And,

Roy Barker  14:19

you know, sometimes, again, this is this is my theory, I'll get you to weigh in on it is that we don't always have to be the boss of everything. And, and not only is it teaches how to delegate, but I mean, if I'm good at sales, then I don't need to hire salesmen and meet me be the back office runner. I mean, hire hire for those skills that you need help with, and then do your own thing. And, you know, that goes for HR. Maybe you have the last say on who we hire, but you shouldn't be wrapped up in this entire process and get, you know, we need to hire talent that can really excel in these other areas that were maybe not our field.

Ann  14:58

Yeah, and you know, I'll I love what you're bringing up here, you're bringing up the idea of delegating, yes, you know, identifying very specific things that need to be done, and then delegating. And that is, I think, theoretically everybody would say, yeah, yeah, let's, you know, delegate. But in reality, we can get in our own way, by trying to control too many things, or, you know, not empower somebody else, to take on some of those tasks that need to be done. So you know, what, the key to all of this is, you know, is to really enhance your self awareness, you know, to know what, what your tendencies are to know, what you what you need help with what you need to delegate, but also, you know, to what degree do you feel like you always have to be in control? You know, to what degree are you a stickler about various things, to the point where people can't work with you? Right? There's a lot to consider in this pile.

Roy Barker  16:02

Yeah, yeah. And that's the other thing we can run. You know, if we, if we don't learn how to share responsibility and delegate, we can run good talent off, because, you know, we know that the people that we hire for key positions, they don't need to be micromanaged. Like, you know, like a child, right? You know, we need to give them right, I set the responsibility, and then let them do their thing. And don't, I guess, Think positive that if we make the right hires, we give them the right tools are gonna do the right job, not the other way around? Like, I can't trust anybody, you know, to do these tasks, because I don't know, one thing I found in life is there's always somebody better than you at whatever you're good at. And there's still somebody better than you. So we can always, you know, we may have to look a little harder, but we can always find, you know, somebody that can handle that position.

Ann  16:52

Absolutely, absolutely. So yeah, so it's a it's a, it's a, it's a big deal with small businesses. And then if you are not at the level of a business idea, so you're a true entrepreneur, you're just, you're just starting out with a particular business idea. An enormous number of ideas never come to fruition. I believe it's as high as 90% 90% of these ideas die on the vine and never go anywhere. Now, if you were going to if that was true, if it was 90%, what do you think is happening with that? 90%? What do you what do you think's happening? Why it's not going from idea to fruition?

Roy Barker  17:35

I would say because they want to try to tackle it themselves and not get others involved to help them. get it going.

Ann  17:41

Yep. Yep. What else do you think comes into play?

Roy Barker  17:48

I would say I was just thinking money, the backing you know, maybe it's a really ambitious idea. But you know, we've got to have capital and sometimes the you can't start every business on a shoestring.

Ann  18:02

Yes, that's another thing too. Exactly. It's It's It's how good are you with finances? You know, how good are you with tracking where your money is? How good are you with, you know, getting, you know, funding? Yeah. So that's, that's another possibility. What else do you think might stand in their way?

Roy Barker  18:22

I think maybe even people may be looking for just not justification, but looking for others to give them looking for approval from others. Or having a naysayer say, you know, what, that'll never work. And, you know, it's, it's funny, because I just just this morning, um, I don't know if you've seen the news. But you know, they announced Jeff Bezos is stepping down from right, right in day to day and just going to be a bridge chair. But in 1994, I'm sure. Can you imagine what his friends and family were saying? You want to start a bookstore in your garage with some kind of internet thing? I mean, you know, can you imagine the ridicule that he must have endured when he wrote that idea down?

Ann  19:11

Yeah, yeah, exactly. What and that's exactly right. So yeah, so can you sell your idea? Can you can you see it enough where you can sell it to others, so that they will jump on board with you? Can you know, do you have the patience to wait it out? Because a lot of times somebody great idea is, you know, is the great Aha, and it's like into the future, but then they don't know how to, you know, step it back so that they can take the steps to make it really happen. So you know, the networking, the selling of the idea that finances you know, the the stick to itiveness you know, are you a person who jumps from idea to idea before you test, drive an idea, all of those things, really get In the way of people who are, you know, trying to make a business idea floats. Yeah.

Roy Barker  20:04

And we talk about this in sales a lot. But you know, I go back to the agrarian model is that, you know, we have to sow the seed, we have to cultivate, and then we reap our harvest. And, you know, in sales, a lot of times, it's a one call, hey, I'm selling my seat, and I'm reaping the harvest day, if I'm not, you know, I'm moving on. It's no relationship building. But that can happen in businesses too. And, and, you know, I kind of, I love social media, I love electronics, I think, you know, there's a lot of positive, but I will say on the negative side is, you know, I see the guy with the big boat, and he's in the business, amen. And it's like, Why? Why can't I have my picture in front of the big boat, we have these maybe unrealistic ideas and expectations set off of what we get in these social media feeds, whereas, you know, the, the, the guy that was an overnight success, yeah, we just heard about him overnight. But you didn't hear about the last 10 years while he's been toiling away, or, you know, struggling behind the scenes that, you know, the, the graph of success is not just this linear line, it's all, you know, and it's like, you know, some lady podcast I was on recently, you know, she said, Have? I don't remember the question, but she posed, it was like, Hey, have you ever wanted to quit? And I said, in the last hour, yeah, three times, you know, it's like, you know, it's like, travel every day. And it's so there's so many times that we could just fold it up and say, I'm not doing this anymore. But I guess I kind of get back to that, you know, you have to have that passion and really believe in your mission and what you're doing, too.

Ann  21:48

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think, uh, you know, all of these, all of these variables that we've been talking about, we've talked about a number of them already, all of these variables have to come into a sphere of self awareness. Oftentimes, we are unaware of some of our tendencies. So you know, you might be vaguely aware that you jump from thing to thing, you know, for instance, I got this idea, I got that idea. And you abandon it before you actually give it a good test drive. And what you can need to telling yourself is, you know, that that just wasn't a very good idea. And instead of saying, maybe it's me, maybe it's because I tend to jump from thing to thing, and it actually has a consequence, because nothing ever has the opportunity to take root. Yeah. And so, you know, you can you have to have an enormous amount of self awareness to, to to make a, you know, a business would go that way.

Roy Barker  22:55

Yeah, and one thing I was just writing down while you're talking, it kind of goes along with that is ego check, because if I'm struggling, whether is the business or component, sometimes, yep, we don't want that to seep out like somebody thinks I can't handle it, or they think there's a flaw in me or the business when it's like, you know, yep, yep. I judge people and managers, not on what they know. But do they know how to go seek the answer for what they don't know, that's the most important part of all this? So asking help from others? There's nothing wrong with that. Nothing at all.

Ann  23:29

Right. Absolutely. And, and honestly, this is something you know, I mentioned, Whitley, you mentioned at the beginning of the of the broadcast here, that I've been in the people development business for a long time. Now, here's one of the things I know to be very true. And that is, your level of self awareness comes apart comes along in layers. So let's say you're an individual who's very, very, very talkative. And if somebody says, You know what, you talk a lot, and you nod your head. Yeah, yeah, I know, I talk a lot. But you don't get to the layers of Well, what does that mean, as far as somebody who has to listen to you? Or what impact is that having on people with being willing to come into your office and ask you a question? Because, you know, you might be there for 20 minutes? Because you're so targeted? I mean, in other words, it just appeals back in layers, right. And so it's sort of a kind of a life lifelong quest to really understand the impact of both our strengths and our blind spots. Yeah. And that falls into the category of self awareness.

Roy Barker  24:36

Yeah. And it's important in the creative part for me, because, you know, when I get stuck on something, if I'm very self aware, in the moment, I can see, hey, I'm been sitting here for an hour, two hours, you know, digging and trying to look around and find this and sometimes it's just as easy as stepping up, taking a walk, getting outside breathe in fresh air, it just clears your head but Yep, I will tell you that, you know, in my youth, I would have sat there for two or three more hours banging my head against the table instead of, you know, just trying to be aware of what's going on around me was this become a problem all of a sudden?

Ann  25:14

Yeah, you learn something, you spent a lot of time on planet. And ironically, that's so glad you brought that up, because there's a book by Adam Grant called originals. And basically, it talks about individuals who've had original ideas, etc. And they talk about, like the Warby Parker glasses, and you know, a number of other things. But one of the things that was articulated in that book is the most successful entrepreneurs have actually spent time somewhere else first. So they didn't jump out of college and boom, you know, there they go. I mean, there's a few that have I mean, but but it's such a small amount, the vast majority of successful entrepreneurs, have spent some time on the planet have been doing other kinds of work that will inform their choices with entrepreneurship.

Roy Barker  26:11

on their mind, or going off now. Oh, yeah. love that about that. Yeah.

Ann  26:16

I'm sorry. I can't hear because I've got the earphones on. Yeah, they're laying there, like, perfect. Gentlemen, gentlemen, so far.


so far.

Roy Barker  26:26

So, you know, is there after you do the entrepreneurial edge is there? I mean, I know it, it's probably looks at a wide range of things. But are there some typical, like a checklist of things that you go down through and say, you know, these are some things that we need to do to avoid, you know, certain pitfalls as we start this journey? Or as we are in the journey?

Ann  26:51

Yes, yep. That's exactly what it does is it takes you through a number of, excuse me, a number of areas that are known to, to to create successful entrepreneurship, okay. And you, you know, effectively you, you rate yourself on these various areas, and you see where the holes are and where the strengths are. So, you know, you might be an excess, you know, really good manager, people, you might be a really good networker, you might be really good with money, you know, but there might be some other areas that are not quite as strong. Yeah. And so there'll be some suggestions on things you can do specifically to strengthen that part of your endeavor. So, you know, and it might be as simple as find somebody who can help you with this, because it doesn't look like it's a strength of yours.

Roy Barker  27:50

Yeah. And which brings up a good point. So when, when is too early to take this? I mean, should I, I've got a kernel of an idea. I haven't even written it on the napkin yet. But I'm thinking is that a go ahead? Good time, let's go ahead and take that. And then we kind of know, as we start through that planning phase, versus getting started and getting, you know, waist deep in something, and then trying to figure out where our shortcomings are?

Ann  28:15

Well, I you know, to me, it is useful to do it, as you're getting started to do it, you know, as you've you know, made a little bit of progress with the idea. So read, redo it, revisit it and see where you are. And just, you know, use that because the the nature of any of these kinds of assessments is they're not like diagnostics, like you go to get your blood test and all that. But there are guidelines and check ins, right. And so that's, that's the value of them. It's a structured way to appraise the whole process of entrepreneurship, and what you need to do to make it more likely, likely that you'll be successful. Yeah. So

Roy Barker  28:59

yeah, I think we change as we, you know, as we start down any road in life, maybe we thought we were going to be the awesome salesperson, but now we're the you know, whatever you're doing the awesome inventory person or, you know, stamping out the license plate or whatever we do. And, you know, so I guess that's a good another good reason to kind of keep keep a monitor on that just in case things change, we can change as well before we get into trouble.

Ann  29:28

Yeah, exactly. And again, it's just it's a way for a person to in a, in an organized way, kind of it's almost like do your scorecard. Strong here that's so strong here. really got to watch for here. And, you know, and because you're answering the questions, it's your, your perception of how things are going and what you need to pay attention to. You know, when I went from my work in the hospital, my the work I did with brains, and then When I started my business for coaching, you know, there was a lot of stuff that I just wasn't aware of. And it was, you know, can I define what what it is what I'm actually doing? You know, how are my finances set up? It's, I mean, there were so much for that itty bitty little business of one guy, right? It's incredible. Now, imagine that you're trying to make an idea float with multiple people, or even, you know, just a few, it takes a lot of self awareness.

Roy Barker  30:33

Yeah, and that's another good reason, I think, to surround ourselves with, you know, a team of advisors. And you know, my mother would love to be one. But I'd say, look, I need somebody that's gonna tell me that I'm wrong every day, you need somebody that can give you that honest feedback and can't because especially starting things, we don't know what we don't know, unfortunately. And so that's another reason. And sometimes even competitors may be across town or in a different city, they will, they are more than, more than glad to help you you reach out, they can tell you some pitfalls that they ran it, or maybe you need to have a certificate or this license, things like that, you know, to keep you from getting in trouble. So always surround yourself with and there's a great, you know, there's a great new line out that if you're the smartest person in the room, you need to find a new room.

Ann  31:28

Yeah, no kidding. No kidding. No. Yeah, no, as a matter of fact, I was talking to my friend of mine this week. And I said, my favorite TED Talk is the TED talk that talks about how wrong we are all the time, right? It's the free, most freeing thing in the world to not have to think you got to be right all the time. Exactly.

Roy Barker  31:48

So how long would it take to go through this? If and I guess that you can find this online? I mean, we'll talk about how people can get in contact with you in a minute. But is this something that you just go online and can get through?

Ann  32:02

Yep, yeah, it's a it's about 20 minutes. And so you, you know, you'd want to heal, but you can't just find it online, you have to go through somebody who can interpret it for you. So they'd have to say, Okay, I'm interested in hearing let you know, entrepreneur edge has to say, and so you know, if they wanted to think about that, or pursue that, the first thing that they would do is probably book just a basic initial consultation with you, which is free, okay, and just, you know, talk to me about what it is that you're trying to accomplish, and even to find out if this particular assessment is going to be helpful to you. So it probably will be but I always like to talk to somebody first to make sure I understand what their goals right

Roy Barker  32:49

now, and that's good. I think you bring up another good point about any kind of a an assessment, whether it's, there's a lot out there, I'm not gonna try to name all of them. But yeah, it's not taken it that is the hardest part. I mean, we have to be open and self aware. It's the interpretation of the results. Yeah. Is that where we can get in trouble. And again, that's why, you know, going through a professional such as yourself is well worth it to make sure that we interpret, you know, what we're doing in the correct manner.

Ann  33:21

Absolutely. It's, it's huge. It's, it's, it's, it makes a difference between a thing being somewhat useful and extremely useful or game changing, you know, somebody can help you understand it from the interpretations standpoint, because sometimes some of these online assessments aren't even correct, because you haven't even interpret that or interpreted their question in the way that that that is supposed to lead to the way it's supposed to be interpreted. So for instance, if you're talking about like, extraversion, if you say, No, I don't need to be the life of the party. In your mind, you could say, Alright, well, therefore I'm introverted. But that's not that's not true. That's not the that's they're not a you know, so you need somebody to kind of help walk you through the possibility that you're extroverted, but you don't need to be the life of the party.

Roy Barker  34:15

Yeah. And that's because that's just seems like the sidebar is like, you take these tests, and you get the results. But to me, the questions, a lot of them are situational is like, you know, there are times Yep, to be an introvert and that you're the extrovert. And so it's not always one answer fits all situations. But anyway, I think that the other the other part of this is you've seen enough of these tests to know how I answer it, to maybe also give a little extra insight into, you know, some challenges or some, you know, positive points.

Ann  34:53

Yeah, yeah, there's, there's a couple of assessments like you know, I do the emotional intelligence assessment, the gold standard that you ui 2.0 where you can actually go back and talk about how that person answered it. And so you can say, what you rated yourself in this way. Tell me more about what you were thinking when you rated yourself. And you may find through that simple discussion, that it really is a little bit different for you. Yeah, you know, so it's, it's, you know, a good and good conversation around any assessment you take is going to be the game changer part of it.

Roy Barker  35:28

Yeah. Well, and I want to thank you for taking time, if we've got anything else you want to add quickly, that we know we're gonna wrap it up here, though, you know, one of my wrap up questions is, so what is a tool that you use in your life, it can be a, you know, an app, or maybe it's a habit or process, but what's something you do personally or professionally, that just adds a lot of value to your day.

Ann  35:52

So actually, and I'm glad we'll be having a chance to talk about it, but the positive intelligence, a program, which is a daily opportunity to build my mental muscle, okay, is most of you know that along with of course, my physical walking every day, and you know, making sure my body is physically healthy. The, the other is the, the mental. The mental strength is super, super important. And it's, you really just have to build it like you would build a muscle at the gym. So that when you need to call on it, you got it. Right.

Roy Barker  36:30

Okay, awesome. Yeah, I won't have to I'm on a course get with you. After the show. We've got a lot of topics, we'd like to talk about someone to see if I can talk you into coming back. And we can delve more into the the positive intelligence that sounds very interesting. So anyway, well, tell everybody you know, who is your client, what you can do for them, and of course, how they can reach out and get a hold of you.

Ann  36:54

Okay, so I am an individual who works with emerging leaders, emerging entrepreneurs, people who are looking to level up as the term that a lot is being used a lot today, but but to uncover your potential so that whatever endeavor that you're taking on, you know, what your strengths are, you know, what your blind spots are, you have the mental resilience and strength to push through to those higher goals. anybody who is interested in talking to me could go to my website,, and can book a free consultation, and I'll talk to you about what I can do for you. And and if I can't give you what you're actually looking for, I could probably refer you somewhere else. So I get a, I get a number of, you know, inquiries, and if I don't feel like I'm the person who you need right now. Well, I'll refer you on. Okay, so

Roy Barker  37:54

Well, that's great. Well, y'all reach out to and no matter where you are in the journey, if you're just starting, or if you've gone down the road a little bit, reach out, see how she can be a help and make your life easier. And then maybe we can make your venture more successful as well. So thanks a lot, and I certainly do appreciate it. Until next time, that's going to be it for the business of business podcast. Of course, you can find us at the, where you're also on all the major social media, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and the recording of this episode, when it goes live will be up on YouTube as well. So we ask that you check it out. We are on all the major platforms like iTunes, Google, Stitcher, Spotify, if we're not on one that you listen to please reach out I'd be glad to see if we can get added to that. So until next time, take care of yourself and take care of your business. Thank you.